Building Financial Wellness Strengthens Relationships

Jim Marous (00:00):

Welcome to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking. I'm your host, Jim Marous. I am thrilled to have Rochelle Gorey, Founder and CEO of the fintech startup SpringFour and Anuj Vohra, Head of North American Collections at BMO Financial Group joining me.

Jim Marous (00:30):

We're going to be exploring BMO's partnership with SpringFour to move beyond transactions and debt collection by linking customers with financial resources that can make them more financially well and more comfortable in their financial transactions. This innovative collaboration aims to show empathy, build loyalty, and strengthen financial health, making banking truly work better for consumers through mission aligned innovations.

Jim Marous (01:00):

This discussion will make it clear that combining capabilities for economies of technology and empathy can construct a brighter future for consumers and financial institutions alike. SpringFour's mission is to connect financially struggling consumers with programs and services that can help them save money, pay down debt, and improve their overall financial health.

Jim Marous (01:27):

The technology leverages data analytics to match individuals facing financial hardship with tailored, relevant assistance across areas like food, healthcare, housing, transportation, and more based on their specific needs and eligibility requirements.

Jim Marous (01:41):

So, Rochelle, we met, oh my gosh, coming out of COVID time at an event in Wrigley Field. So, we had a great discussion that night. It was very interesting because coming out of nowhere, and we just got into the discussion and it was really intriguing what you were doing, and it wasn't early in your journey, but you've done so much recently. So, what motivated you to start SpringFour, and what problem does it look to solve in financial services?

Rochelle Gorey (02:13):

Jim, it's great to be reconnected with you today, thanks for your interest in our work at SpringFour. So, I've spent my career working in the financial services industry from the nonprofit side, and built a lot of partnerships between banks and community organizations around home ownership, foreclosure intervention.

Rochelle Gorey (02:28):

And in the early 2000s had the idea for SpringFour because we were seeing so many families losing their homes to foreclosure and they didn't know where to turn for help. And yet I knew there were lots of nonprofit and government programs available to assist people to address the underlying or root causes behind a person's delinquency.

Rochelle Gorey (02:49):

So, we had this idea to build SpringFour and to be able to create the technology to connect people to vetted, curated resources that could help them get back on track with their payments. So, that's what we've been doing ever since, and we're really proud of our track record and the reputation we've built within the industry.

Jim Marous (03:09):

So, it's interesting, Rochelle, there are so many challenges in the marketplace today, and a lot of that started with COVID but a lot of people were in challenging times before then, and now more than ever, it's really hard to get your head above water if you're challenged. So, how exactly does SpringFour work, and how do you partner with financial institutions to make it so that people can get out from the burden that they're feeling today?

Rochelle Gorey (03:36):

Yes, Jim, you're absolutely right. I think the latest stat is 63% of Americans are having trouble paying their bills. So, what we're doing is we're understanding and looking at what are those reasons people get behind on their payments. And we have a wide database of over 22 now, 23,000 vetted and curated resources available only through nonprofit and government resources. And we make referrals in 30 different, what we call spending categories.

Rochelle Gorey (04:04):

So, anything from food savings to help reducing your prescription drug costs to our brand new category, transportation savings. We have financial counseling and down payment assistance, employment and job training resources. So, if you think about a person who's struggling, we have resources that help reduce their household expenses in probably every single category that somebody is spending in.

Rochelle Gorey (04:29):

And that's why we're able to make a tangible difference in a person's financial life because we're looking at and understanding what causes them to get behind, and then providing them with connections to resources that reduce costs in those areas, and we do that through our product suite.

Rochelle Gorey (04:45):

So, we have a call center tool that arms call center agents and customer service representatives with these resources, allowing them to be empathetic and be able to provide assistance to that person in their moment of need. And then we have customer self-service digital offerings that allow a bank's customer to find and locate those resources on their own.

Jim Marous (05:08):

Boy, it's interesting. Anuj, why did BMO want to partner with a startup like SpringFour focused on financial wellness rather than just a traditional collections capability?

Anuj Vohra (05:21):

That's a great question, Jim, and thanks for inviting me for the session. So, first of all, just a little bit of a background on SpringFour and our partnership with SpringFour. So, SpringFour is an early alumni of our BMO's Women in Fintech Program. It's one of North America's largest non-for-profit fintech programs for women-led and women-founded startups. And our partnership with Rochelle and SpringFour started over five years ago.

Anuj Vohra (05:46):

And the brainchild behind this partnership, if I take a step back and kind of analyze the situation, so when we are in collections, we are dealing with any sort of a social economic issue that a human's going through. You think about people are out of a job, people are dealing with sickness, people are dealing with so many different socioeconomic issues, and you'll be surprised when we are talking to our clients, they're extremely open and upfront about what kind of issues they're dealing with.

Anuj Vohra (06:14):

And in BMO, one of the things we had realized Jim, was that we had a lot of solutions to help people with their debts as far as the solution was concerned for the specific debt in BMO. Where we couldn't help the clients was solutions outside of what happened in BMO. And that's where the partnership with SpringFour was just paramount.

Anuj Vohra (06:34):

So, if you envision, we are talking to clients and when we offer them a solution on how they can look after their debt with BMO, and we are not just in the job of collecting money, so I just want to be very, very clear about that. That's not our goal. Our goal is to build real financial progress for our clients. And as we were analyzing these situations, we came across so many different clients who needed help outside of BMO.

Anuj Vohra (06:58):

So, Rochelle alluded to people needed food from a food bank, people needed jobs, people needed help with managing their electricity bills. People needed help with looking after the elders, that they were staying at home looking after them. And while they were doing that, they didn't have time to go and look for a job themselves.

Anuj Vohra (07:18):

And what the SpringFour solution did was it really brought a whole set of solutions to the forefront that we could actually offer to our clients outside of just the solutions that we had internally in BMO. So, it became an overarching solution of financial help across the board.

Anuj Vohra (07:38):

One of the stats that I look at often is what kind of referrals are we making? And not so sure if this is surprising or not, but to give you an idea, one of the number one areas where our clients take up a referral option is around helping them with food banks.

Anuj Vohra (07:54):

So, you can appreciate we are talking to clients, and not only are we helping them make financial progress by helping them with their debts internally in BMO, we are actually helping them find referrals to food banks. We are actually helping them find jobs. So, this kind of partnership is when we started the relationship with Rochelle and SpringFour, it was really, really new. And I'll tell you, it's just been the most phenomenal thing. I think it's a great win-win solution for our clients as well as our organization.

Jim Marous (08:27):

It's interesting, we think of all the traditional ways that organizations can help collect money, and there's a bottom line impact on that. But this goes so much further than that plus where Rochelle and SpringFour have actually vetted these solutions that would take BMO or any finance institution forever to find both the local and national resources that are available.

Jim Marous (08:48):

So, Anuj what impact, what kind of metrics can you see that has been the impact on BMO's customers and on your business overall? Because at the end of the day, what we found in a lot of solutions is that it's not about charity, it's not about spending more and getting less, it's really a bigger issue than that.

Jim Marous (09:11):

And before we started the podcast, Rochelle and I talked about the, I'm never too sure if it is doing well by doing good or doing good by doing well. But what kind of metrics are you seeing on the result for your customers that you connect with SpringFour?

Anuj Vohra (09:26):

Yeah, no, that's a great question. And Jim, obviously, just like anything that we would look at, there's always got to be metrics that you look at from a financial benefit for our clients, you look at financial benefits for the organization.

Anuj Vohra (09:40):

And one of the most important thing that we look at is the clients that we are able to actually help leveraging these SpringFour solutions, what happens to the loss. So, we see fewer accounts becoming more and more delinquent.

Anuj Vohra (09:55):

We've actually done tests to see if there's a population that we actually refer them through the SpringFour resources, and we do not refer them through a SpringFour resource, what is the financial benefit for the client and for the organization? And I'll tell you that the benefits are in millions of dollars in terms of those clients who actually take the help that we offer them through the BMO solutions, as well as through the SpringFour solutions.

Anuj Vohra (10:21):

And they're actually fewer foreclosures, they're few bankruptcies, they're fewer insolvencies, the fewer accounts who are getting to latest stages of delinquency because not only are they able to manage their affairs with BMO, but with the help that we are offering them, they're actually able to, like I say, genuinely make real financial progress in their lives.

Jim Marous (10:43):

So, Rochelle, from the standpoint of you connecting with financial institutions, when you actually make your presentation and talk about what SpringFour can bring to a financial institution, what kind of commitment does the financial institution need to make with SpringFour and what kind of cost is involved for the financial institution in building this partnership?

Rochelle Gorey (11:02):

So, when we talk with financial institutions, what we're pitching is we want to work with you to change the way you are approaching delinquent clients. We're changing the collection strategies that you're employing today. We're going to bring empathy and that human connection to the way that you work with your customers. And frankly, we believe it's the right direction. It's great for business, it's always good business to be able to help your customers in good times and bad.

Rochelle Gorey (11:31):

And what we find is, for the most part, people do trust their banks. So, if your customer gets in a bit of trouble, why not have strategies available for your customers to provide that assistance and that olive branch, if you will, to a customer that's having a hard time.

Rochelle Gorey (11:49):

What we see happening is when a bank does that and Anuj spoke so eloquently about the impact of that. Customers, they trust you, they will get back on track and they will pay you back first. So, what we're doing, it's a nice thing to have, it feels good. It's resulting in bottom line business impact, ROI and what bank is not looking to do that?

Rochelle Gorey (12:16):

So, I think my message today is financial health, it's here to stay. It's in everyone's best interest to have solutions that promote financial health and wellness for your clients, for your customers, for your employees and so we're a mainstay and we're very, very excited and bullish about the coming year and increased interest by the financial services industry to employ programs like SpringFour.

Jim Marous (12:44):

So, Rochelle, you're knocking on the door of bank X, Y, Z and they decide not to go forward with you. What is the usual reason why an organization would say, "Not now," for a solution like yours?

Rochelle Gorey (12:59):

Well, Jim, I'll tell you it doesn't happen very often when people see SpringFour, they see our products in action, they see the companies that we're already working with, and they meet our team, they love us, and they want to work with us. But there are a few rare occasions where we don't get a yes right away and I will say it comes down to priorities.

Rochelle Gorey (13:17):

And so, my message to the banking world is this needs to be a priority. This is absolutely going to come back to you and to your bottom line and to your clients in so many positives that you've got to move SpringFour up to the top of your priority list.

Jim Marous (13:34):

So, Anuj, from your perspective, when you decided to go forward with SpringFour, how long did it take to put this partnership together to make it actually street worthy, to actually have it be something that you're recommending out to the marketplace?

Anuj Vohra (13:48):

Yeah, no, it was actually a really, really smooth process. One of the things that I would say about working with SpringFour is that they make it really easy and convenient. So, their technology is so easily adaptable in terms of integrating with your systems and your processes that I want to say it's not a big deal at all. So, that's I think, point number one.

Anuj Vohra (14:11):

The second thing was helping our team members understand the value proposition of why we do SpringFour. And surprisingly, not surprisingly, Jim, it was not even a sell for them, it was so intuitive. And I will tell you that our team members were so ecstatic when we offered this solution because they deal with real people and real problems and real issues day in and day out.

Anuj Vohra (14:36):

And when we spoke to them about what we were trying to do through the SpringFour partnership, it was just an immediate sell for them. Over 90% of our agents say that every time they offer a SpringFour solution, the feedback that they get from our clients is just phenomenal.

Anuj Vohra (14:53):

And as you can appreciate, it's not an easy job and you're trying to help clients and you're dealing with so many different socioeconomic situations, and there's nothing, there's nothing more important than feeling satisfied after a call saying, not only was I able to help them with a solution on the BMO date, I was able to actually offer them solution that makes real financial progress.

Anuj Vohra (15:14):

To give you some real high level stats, in five years, Jim, we have made over 800,000 referrals through SpringFour.

Jim Marous (15:22):

Oh, my gosh, that's a lot.

Anuj Vohra (15:25):

So, you can appreciate, it's not like a one-off thing that we do it if we feel. It is genuinely built into our culture to actually help our clients. And like I said, it is so intuitive that it is such a brilliant thing and it's so easily integrable and Rochelle and team do a brilliant job even coming and talking to our teams and training them on the solution itself.

Anuj Vohra (15:51):

So, the end-to-end partnership and the ease of integrating the technology is so amazing and big kudos to SpringFour for setting up a tool which is so convenient and easy to use.

Rochelle Gorey (16:03):

Thank you.

Jim Marous (16:06):

It's interesting Anuj as you were talking about the agents and the agents in a traditional setting would simply be trying to go, "Okay, how can we get you to make these payments? We'll cut the payment down, we'll not do the payment." And it's a conversation the consumer would be probably expecting to hear, but also be one they really dread. So, they don't even want to pick up the phone, especially if they know what your number is once you call.

Jim Marous (16:30):

On the other hand, what a surprise and delight moment it is, if a customer is having a challenge, and the first thing that comes out of the collection agent's mouth is not about the payment they have to make, but asking questions about, "Okay, are you having trouble putting food on the table? What's really impacting your ability to make this payment?"

Jim Marous (16:50):

And all of a sudden this agent, this person becomes a friend of the person who's having challenges. And I would think despite logic, you become the first organization they try to pay because you're probably one of the first that actually tried to help them as opposed to help themselves. And that's just the way banking is. It's we're looking to get to the end result, but there's different ways to get there.

Jim Marous (17:12):

So, Anuj, I also was thinking when you were talking that every employee of BMO runs into some type of financial challenge sometime in their life. How do you get the word out about what SpringFour has available, where they may be able to access before they run into problems as opposed to simply in a response to challenges?

Anuj Vohra (17:36):

Now that's a great question, Jim. So, one of the things that we do is we have a lot of educational material that we actually send out to our clients even before we talk to them about the actual challenge they're having. This could be through educational emails, this could be through, text messages and everything else.

Anuj Vohra (17:54):

And one of the things that we've done is we've actually embedded the links for clients to self-serve themselves by putting the links for SpringFour in our letters. So, it's not even that they actually have to talk to us to figure out the solution.

Anuj Vohra (18:08):

In addition to that SpringFour and the links to the SpringFour resources are right on the forefront of our main pages in BMO. So, it's really easy for our internal agents as well as our external clients to actually browse through and find the solution. And to your point, it's not just about being reactive and it's about being proactive.

Anuj Vohra (18:30):

One of the stories that just out of turn, but I just wanted to ... I think this is a good time to kind of talk about this one, is the successes we see, Jim is one, you get instant feedback when you're trying to help people and make financial progress.

Anuj Vohra (18:45):

One of the most rewarding things is when you've helped somebody and then those clients proactively call you back and say, "Let me tell you what you did in my life." And I'll just quickly tell you this one story, it still bring goosebumps on my arm when I talk about the story.

Anuj Vohra (19:00):

And we were talking to a client who was dealing with a hard time paying their auto loan. And in this situation after we understood the capacity and the willingness and everything else, clearly an individual who was willing to solve their problems but didn't know how. And one of the things that we did was leveraging the SpringFour solution. We actually guided them towards a job bank.

Anuj Vohra (19:24):

And clearly, I want to say in a very quick few weeks that client proactively called us back and said, "Hey, I'm just calling you back not to let you know that I've made the payment, that's an obvious, but I want to let you know that the referral that you did with me for SpringFour actually helped me land a job. And I wanted to thank you for doing that because nobody else actually did that for me."

Anuj Vohra (19:47):

And you talk about real financial progress, I don't know what a better definition of real financial progress is. And then to the point that when you actually go above and beyond to provide set services to our clients, they become your clients for a lifetime.

Jim Marous (20:04):

Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, exactly.

Anuj Vohra (20:07):

They are the ones who think about, if I have a choice of having my future business once this individual is back in the feet, and if they wanted to get a mortgage or they wanted to invest in something, the first thing that's going through their mind is, "What was that organization who was standing behind me when I was low in my life financially and who stood out for me and who helped me?" We will always be top of the mind recall and no marketing, no dollars can actually buy that kind of loyalty.

Anuj Vohra (20:40):

And to me, this is why this partnership and the tool and the solution is so powerful that you see these real, and I'm just giving you one story here as an example. When I hear these stories from our agents, it was just heartwarming and it's just such a good feeling that you were able to do something for our clients well outside of their day-to-day financials.

Jim Marous (21:03):

Well, it's interesting because I can go back 40 years and I was working for a retail bank in Cleveland, Ohio, actually it was much more than 40 years, but we'll say 40 years. And we did the traditional rotation. I came out of university and did a rotation at the bank and did different departments. That was what it was built like then. And the one we all dreaded the most was our time and collections because it can be depressing.

Jim Marous (21:29):

I mean, you're talking to people that are having challenges. Your image is that you're the tough guy that's got to get money for the bank. You're being rated on how well you do, but you look at the solution that you're connecting with with SpringFour, and all of a sudden these agents are solving people's problems as opposed to simply collecting people's money.

Jim Marous (21:49):

And that makes it so that it impacts your employees as well as your customers in a positive, heartwarming way and your story was so good.

Jim Marous (21:58):

So, Rochelle, from the perspective of how your business model works, you have to be in business yourself. You still have to make money in some way. Does the money come from the companies that you refer, or does it come from the finance institution? Or is it a blend?

Rochelle Gorey (22:16):

Thanks for that question, because it is a true differentiator of SpringFour. So, our clients is the financial service industry. So, they pay to license our technology. So, BMO pays for the use of SpringFour. So, another important distinction with SpringFour is that all of the organizations that appear in SpringFour, we independently curate and vet those organizations.

Rochelle Gorey (22:39):

So, we receive no marketing or affiliate fees from any organization. We are a trusted third-party of this vetted information. And then when we go into business with a bank, when they utilize our technology, they have unlimited referrals available to them.

Rochelle Gorey (22:58):

We want to make certain that we create every incentive possible for BMO to promote and share SpringFour resources with as many customers as possible. So, BMO was already a client of ours when the pandemic hit, you can imagine that their usage skyrocketed, they still paid the same amount.

Rochelle Gorey (23:15):

So, I said we want to create incentives, or rather, we don't want to create any disincentives so that a bank does not want to put SpringFour in all of their marketing materials, et cetera. So, at the end of the day, we want to help as many people as possible.

Rochelle Gorey (23:30):

And this year we had our highest of record number of referrals made through SpringFour, five and a half million referrals made. We're really proud of that. And as a new shed, we're helping banks go above and beyond but I do want to be clear that it's a super simple and easy process our clients deploy with us in under 30 days. We're deemed low risk by vendor and compliance teams, and we're a simple and straightforward tool. So, it's very exciting.

Jim Marous (24:03):

So, wait you're saying that if I said I want to go forward with you, you're up and running in 30 days?

Rochelle Gorey (24:09):

Yep. So, that's a rarity with a fintech bank partnership and we're very proud of that. And I don't know if you caught it, but Anuj said it was a very smooth process and we hear that from all our clients.

Jim Marous (24:18):

Yes, I did catch that.

Rochelle Gorey (24:20):

That's not normally the case but I will tell you, we have a long track record and we get it done very quickly, very smoothly. We have a brand-new product out that is an all-in-one financial health solution that again, can be deployed in 30 days or less.

Jim Marous (24:36):

So, let's take a short break and recognize this sponsor to this podcast.

Jim Marous (24:43):

Welcome back to Banking Transformed. So, I'm joined today by Rochelle Gorey, Co-Founder and CEO of SpringFour and Anuj Vohra, Head of North American Collections for BMO Financial. We've been exploring the challenges and opportunities of creating and deploying a very unique financial wellness solution that goes far beyond collections alone.

Jim Marous (25:05):

So, Anuj, we were talking about a lot of different things before the break around how you've deployed it, how fast you were able to get it on the streets, how it's really changed the image of what a collections agent has to do and how they can do better than just collecting money.

Jim Marous (25:25):

When you look at how you've done this, how has this shifted perspectives internally on how BMO balances business priorities with doing good? Because it probably has impact beyond simply your realm.

Anuj Vohra (25:41):

Now one of the things that we truly believe in BMO is boldly growing the good. And as we were thinking about this partnership, there was clearly the client in mind, but then there was also another really important point that I wanted to highlight, and that is our commitment. BMO's commitment to an all-inclusive society, which also supports our digital first strategy.

Anuj Vohra (26:02):

So, if you think about the partnership as well with a Women in Fintech Program, combined with a digital strategy, it also fast forwarded quite a few things that we had as our agenda item, so from a priorities perspective.

Anuj Vohra (26:19):

So, clearly making, when you want to do a checkbox exercise to say you're getting a new tool, you're getting a new solution, and how will that actually fit your strategic priorities? This one was slam dunk. So, we've got a partnership which is furthering our commitment to an inclusive society with Our Women in Fintech Program.

Anuj Vohra (26:42):

It's definitely checking box, the point around our digital first strategy, it is helping our clients make real financial progress. It's helping our team members feel good about the work that they do in our organization and have a sense of loyalty and a passion to help clients. When I look at all those boxes that this solution fits, Jim, it's just bang on, it's a no brainer.

Rochelle Gorey (27:12):

And I would love to add that last year, BMO's CEO called out our partnership at the shareholders meeting we're working with BMO to demonstrate that our partnership helps meet ESG, social impact and CRA goals. So, there's a lot to it.

Jim Marous (27:29):

That's a great point. And it's always good when something that it could be as Anuj mentioned and not a negative way, a checkbox, "Okay, we've worked with a woman that has a Fintech company, it's good that it's a local organization to Chicago and all these elements." But the reality is it really helps the bottom line. It's not simply a do good so you can say, you did good.

Jim Marous (27:55):

Because I criticize a lot of financial institutions that do things simply for their shareholder meetings and their annual reports. That doesn't make much sense. When you can see the trickle down effect to employees, to employees that can use your services to something that gets implemented, almost to the point of saying, "How could this be implemented so quickly to something that really speaks to the ability to deploy digitally solutions?"

Jim Marous (28:22):

Because it's very clear that SpringFour solutions, as well as the way to integrate the financial institution with SpringFour are all digitally based. This would be very cumbersome in a non-digital world. So, Anuj, when you look at the five years you've been a partner, I think you said with SpringFour, what surprised you the most about putting this partnership into practice?

Anuj Vohra (28:46):

I think a few, so I'll start with first of all how easy it was. Because typically, when you're thinking about integrating a solution, what's going through your head is how long and cumbersome it's going to be and all that kind of stuff. And like I said earlier, this was so easy that you don't even realize that it was something so successful with such less effort so I think that was one.

Anuj Vohra (29:14):

I think the second was just how quickly it got built into our culture. As soon as we launched the solution, how quickly the referral started, going to SpringFour was just absolutely phenomenal.

Anuj Vohra (29:36):

And then the other thing that happened was, it was also just a part of it was also timing, we were just coming into the COVID era. And when we had a BMO, SpringFour direct tool launched, we saw 500% uptake during pandemic because there was so many clients who were going through some financial difficulty for the first time in their lives.

Anuj Vohra (29:56):

And just seeing how adaptive our clients was to a solution, because it's one thing to say, "Hey, I can help you beyond your image of debt." But realizing how desperate people are to get that help and how quickly they actually they not just take a referral and then use that referral to help themselves and how easy the tool was, all those things, once you add the good surprise factor, which is phenomenal, that's really what I would say is the surprising stuff.

Jim Marous (30:31):

It's interesting when you say that because during COVID, the knee jerk response from many financial institutions was saying, "Okay, we'll give you a pass. We'll let you forego a payment or several payments," which basically just was kicking the can down the road. It wasn't solving a problem, it was simply giving relief in the short-term. At the same time, the government was doing the same thing with money.

Jim Marous (30:55):

So, they'd give money to people and gave it to everybody. There was no modeling, nothing else, and they gave it to everybody. And at the end of the day, when you had people forego payments, you weren't really sure if they were foregoing payments because it was a good decision that made it so they could save money for future issues that may come up because of COVID, or if they were foregoing payments because they couldn't live in their apartment if it wasn't for the forbearance.

Jim Marous (31:25):

And it's interesting because we fell back on the easy solutions, but to be able to provide more than that and say, "Okay, here's some ideas of how to get a job during COVID. Here's a way to put food on your table during COVID. Here's a way to make apartment payments," whatever it may be. All these dynamics, as you said, the perfect storm during COVID was more than just doing what was easy. It was going a step further.

Jim Marous (31:52):

And as you said, being able to help consumers in an empathetic way at a time when they weren't really looking for a way to not make a payment. They were looking for anybody that could help them because we all shut down to some degree during COVID, so it's hard to find those people wanting to help.

Jim Marous (32:11):

So, Rochelle, when you look at SpringFour and where you've come from which I mentioned to people that you gave us a sheet of 25 major accomplishments you had in 2023.

Jim Marous (32:25):

But as you look at 2024 and 2025, there's no conversation I have on this podcast that involves anybody in the financial services industry that doesn't at some point talk about generative AI or ChatGPT. How do you see that technology, that capability really expanding what SpringFour can do as related to working with financial institutions to provide better wellness solutions?

Rochelle Gorey (32:54):

I think AI is only going to compliment what we're doing. And I think as an industry we need to be very careful about getting rid of the human component. I think during COVID, everybody said, "Digital, digital, digital." And now we see a bit of a walk back from that. There is power in the human connection, in the human element and providing real people to be available to your customers especially in a time of financial difficulty.

Rochelle Gorey (33:20):

So, I think we have to be a little bit careful. We can't throw everything out and replace it with AI, but I definitely believe there is a way for AI to help deliver us like SpringFour resources in a just in time moment to be able to provide personalized resources that can help. And I would add that it's a very good business to be helping your customers who are having trouble. There will always be people who are experiencing ... sorry, I'll start that over.

Rochelle Gorey (33:51):

There will always be a time, no, what do I want to say? Hold on. There will always be people, no matter what is going on in the big macro world, whether it's a pandemic, a government shutdown, high inflation, there will always be people who are experiencing financial health issues. So, it makes sense to have a solution in place that can help your customers no matter where they're in their financial journey.

Jim Marous (34:19):

It's interesting Rochelle, because I look at SpringFour and say, not only could the generative AI help in the targeting aspect, what solutions do we put toward a human based on this? But also just importantly, what kind of content can be created that can be more essential for people that are looking for solutions.

Jim Marous (34:37):

But major, to your point, your solution actually works better when the human is involved as far as that process goes. So, what can help in content solutions and targeting solutions. The human aspect of this is really what makes this all empathetic. It's hard to show empathy through a digital solution. And I'm sure it's been done, but it's harder. So, that combination of human plus digital is really key.

Jim Marous (35:05):

So, Rochelle, to wrap up this conversation, what advice would you give to financial institutions exploring ways to have a stronger focus on transparency, financial wellness, and a social impact in the marketplace? Besides simply knocking on your door.

Rochelle Gorey (35:23):

Yeah, love that. I think the intent has to be there and I think if there's a will, there's a way. So, as you saw in our conversation with BMO today, they really truly want to assist and help their customers along their financial health journey.

Rochelle Gorey (35:37):

And so, if a bank wants to do it, we're here to help. And to do it with integrity and to understand that if we're truly going to help people along their financial journey, it has to be more than content. It has to be more than education.

Rochelle Gorey (35:56):

If people can't pay their bills right now in this moment, there are ways to assist them. There are ways to reduce those household expenses and get them back on track but it can't be in a simple financial education or budgeting model. There are much more better ways of doing that and I think BMO has spoken so well about that today.

Jim Marous (36:18):

So, Anuj giving you the same question, what advice would you have for other financial institutions that are looking for a better way of doing collection, but even more importantly, to serve the needs of the consumer in a more empathetic way and to help financial wellness?

Anuj Vohra (36:35):

Jim, the most important thing is the way of thinking, it's the philosophy. Like I said, we are not in the business of collections. And as soon as you change that way of thinking that you're in the business of helping clients, you're in the business of selling solutions and solution is not just limited to the solution available inside your organization, but there are solutions available outside the organization as well, that mindset itself can take you a long way.

Anuj Vohra (37:06):

And SpringFour offers one set solution that's a no-brainer. It is really a no-brainer for us to leverage that in the entire industry because at the end of the day, there is a real person behind that phone call. There's a real person behind that letter and that real person is going through a genuine issue.

Anuj Vohra (37:27):

And if we are genuinely interested in helping them make that financial progress, what I call the real financial progress, we have to think outside the box. We have to look for new solutions. We have to think what else is out there that we can use to kind of help our clients with. But it has to start with a mindset that has to change when we are not in the business of collecting money, we're in the business of offering solutions.

Jim Marous (37:53):

It's interesting, it keeps coming back for us as far as what it takes in a lot of the solutions we're talking about. Number one, it takes the ability for legacy leadership to look at banking in a different light and look in a different way.

Jim Marous (38:07):

And secondly, and you said it very well, Anuj, is that you need to have a culture that makes this available to go out to the marketplace. We can put all kinds of roadblocks into solutions like this, but unless you have the culture and the leadership that says, "I'm willing to try something new, I'm willing to step out of my perspective of what any solution is to test new ideas, we'll never get there."

Jim Marous (38:31):

So, thank you both for being on the show today. It's been a great conversation. You've given me a lot of things to think about and you certainly have made it so that my time in collections have passed. I can look at it differently now. It's not the same old collection world that I lived in.

Anuj Vohra (38:48):

No. Jim, we should come back. You should come back.

Jim Marous (38:49):

There we go.

Anuj Vohra (38:50):

Come back to BMO.

[Music Playing]

Jim Marous (38:52):

There we go. I get to go through rotation again. Well, it's interesting because I make fun of that as well that we keep on going through rotation where you send people and say, "Here's how we've done things after they've been told the whole time, they can bring their ideas to the table." It's good to see an organization that's open to new ways of doing things. Thank you both for being on the show.

Anuj Vohra (39:13):

Thank you for-

Rochelle Gorey (39:14):

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

Jim Marous (39:17):

Thanks for listening to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking and the winner of three international awards for podcast excellence. We appreciate the support we've received to make this endeavor success. If you enjoy what we're doing, please take some time to show some love in the form of a review.

Jim Marous (39:33):

Finally, be sure to catch my recent articles on The Financial Brand and check out the research we're doing for the Digital Banking Report. This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts, a special thank you to our senior producer Leah Haslage, and our audio engineer and video producer Will Pritts.

Jim Marous (39:51):

If you've not already done so, remember to subscribe to Banking Transformed on both your favorite podcast app and on YouTube for more thought-provoking discussions on the intersection of finance, technology, and leadership.

Jim Marous (40:06):

Thank you for joining us and until next time, keep innovating and transforming your organization.

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