Communication Strategies to Navigate a Banking Crisis

Jim Marous (00:00):

Hello, and welcome to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking. I'm your host, Jim Marous, Founder and CEO of the Digital Banking Report, and co-publisher of The Financial Brand.

Jim Marous (00:22):

We are right now in uncharted territory with today's economic uncertainty. Consumers are concerned about the safety of their bank and credit union account, and don't know where to turn.

Jim Marous (00:34):

Open and honest communications is only the start, as a bank crisis continues to unfold. Financial institutions must provide resources and answers in real-time to help consumers and employees ease the stress, and to help your bank differentiate itself in a marketplace as a trustworthy advisor during a time of need.

Jim Marous (00:58):

Crisis communication does not start now, it should have started years ago, with ongoing communication. This can ensure that customer loyalty and potentially even attracting customers is possible.

Jim Marous (01:14):

My guest in the Banking Transformed Podcast today is Steven Ramirez, CEO of the communications agency Beyond the Arc.

Jim Marous (01:21):

He shares what financial institutions should say and share, and how they should communicate during these tumultuous times. Boy, it's incredible how quickly public confidence can erode inside an entire vital industry like banking.

Jim Marous (01:39):

The collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and the rapid descend in valuations of several financial institutions is a warning to all companies big and small that they are not immune to the crisis.

Jim Marous (01:52):

I have known today's guest for more than a decade. Meeting Steven first at, I think Finovate San Francisco, and keeping in touch through the years as he's helped banks and credit unions of all sizes with their communications and strategies.

Jim Marous (02:06):

Before we start, Steven, can you share a bit about your background and what you've seen in the industry that has changed the most in the last 20 years?

Steven Ramirez (02:17):

20 years? I'm not that old, I can only talk to you about the last couple years. You know, I'm a young guy.

Jim Marous (02:21):

There we go. Then you built Beyond the Arc back in the day.

Steven Ramirez (02:28):

Yes, that's right, back when I was in high school.

Jim Marous (02:30):

Yeah, there we go.

Steven Ramirez (02:31):

So, Jim, thanks for having me on. I think that there's two things that are probably the biggest mega trends that have impacted banking, and you and I have both been there for this. One, is the complete transformation and focus on customer experience.

Steven Ramirez (02:47):

When we first started talking about this 10 years ago, it was hard to even articulate what the issues are, that is now front and center. It doesn't mean that all banks and FinTech companies are doing it exactly right, but it's definitely on the radar.

Steven Ramirez (03:02):

And then I think a key part of that is the way that we use data for customer insights to be able to fuel decisions. So, I think that there's been this growing momentum behind better customer understanding and experience, that's what I see as the essence of where banking is today. And I think that there's some threats with this current financial situation.

Jim Marous (03:27):

So, it seems common sense that financial institutions, both banks and credit unions, would have a crisis communication plan in place at all times. But at least to me, and I may be wrong, it seems like many organizations were caught somewhat flatfooted when Silicon Valley Bank failed. What happened?

Steven Ramirez (03:47):

I think that each of the banks that have gone through this in the course of the last month or two and are now going through it, have different sort of nuanced situations.

Steven Ramirez (03:57):

But I do think that there's been a miscalculation on how consumers and more broadly, other stakeholders, including investors, the press, government officials, how they would react to certain news. And I think that there's really out of sync in terms of some of the plans and strategies and how those are delivered to key audiences.

Jim Marous (04:22):

Well, it's interesting. One thing that we talked about when Silicon Valley Bank happened was how fricking fast it all took place. I mean, the instantaneous nature of everything in banking, we kind of didn't think about that in the way we do now because last time something like this happened was in 2007, 2008.

Jim Marous (04:42):

And so, all of a sudden, we realized very quickly that bad news travels fast via the internet and Twitter and things of this nature, but that people can react to bad news instantaneously. Taking out their money out of their bank account in a way, and speeds at which a marketing department can hardly intensely respond in time and in place.

Jim Marous (05:08):

So, does that change the dynamics of what financial institutions must put in place with regard to communication, the type of things they say, but just importantly, on channels that they say it? I mean, if you think that something can be said on Twitter right now about me, and I'd have to respond within minutes, I'm not really prepared.

Steven Ramirez (05:33):

Yes, and Jim, I know that I opened my Twitter account in 2009, and I know that yours was probably around that same time.

Jim Marous (05:41):

Yep, sure was.

Steven Ramirez (05:42):

So, we have been there since the beginning on this. And I think that social media absolutely has changed the game. Again, nothing that you or I would be shocked about, but we're seeing those trends that we spotted really come home to roost. And if you are not ready to act instantaneously, then you lose, I think it is as clear as that.

Steven Ramirez (06:04):

And I think that the implication is you have to be prepared. So, you're not just making up answers on the spot, this is really a year-round program of how you engage with your customers and other key audiences that when an issue comes up, it is just part of a larger strategy that you are already implementing every single day of the year.

Jim Marous (06:29):

Very interesting point, Steven. We talked about this a little bit before we went on the air, that when we talk about crisis communications, we always traditionally thought of if this, then that. It's bigger than that, I think, especially in financial services where it's not something you can just start today. It's something you had to have had in place before, or at least put in place now for whatever happens in the future.

Jim Marous (06:53):

What are some of the foundational components that financial institutions should have in place to be prepared for whatever may come up on the horizon?

Steven Ramirez (07:05):

So, I think that having a clear communications plan is critical, and I don't think that that's something that you relegate to your PR department, that's not just something that you hand off. I mean, these messages have to be delivered by the senior most executives, the CEO and the executive team, they are leading that. And then that's going out through every single employee in the bank. Like they are all the ones who are carrying the message.

Steven Ramirez (07:33):

And so, you have to have a vision and a strategy for who you are, what you stand for, and most importantly, how you deliver on the promise of trust. So, how can customers trust you? That has to be the essence of the bedrock that you have, and then that's what gets incorporated into this communication strategy and gets executed across many different channels. But it comes from this crystal-clear understanding of the relationship that you have with customers.

Jim Marous (08:07):

So, over the years, you've been working with financial institutions that I know of, building communication strategies. A lot of it had to do with branding, a lot of it had to do with the experience. A lot of it had to do with this daily interactions to keep the customer aware of what you're doing and for the finance institution to be aware of what the customer wants.

Jim Marous (08:27):

How has that changed from the perspective of channels that you're using, and what you're actually saying is you're working with your clients? What are you emphasizing inside and outside this whole crisis management situation?

Steven Ramirez (08:42):

Well, I think that from a communications perspective, there used to be an idea that you could develop a separate message for each audience. You could send one message to your high-net-worth clients and another message to your business clients and yet another to other key stakeholders.

Steven Ramirez (09:04):

Well, that idea that you as the bank can control where the message goes is out the window. And so, you have to realize that it really is kind of an integrated strategy that needs to come together, and realizing that as soon as you talk to anyone, you're talking to everyone. And so, that's a very difficult challenge to be able to navigate.

Steven Ramirez (09:27):

And I think that Jim, what's happened is because of the challenge, it's caused some banks and some media advisors to say, "Say as little as possible, control the message, don't share beyond what you have to" and I think that that's been devastatingly wrong in the communications that I've seen in the course of the last two months.

Jim Marous (09:55):

So, that's interesting to say that, because I was just going to get to that, is that, in the past, or when you look at this, a lot of institutions would just say, "You know what, it's not us, our stock's not plummeting, our company's not going out of business, we're not, in this case, Silicon Valley Bank."

Jim Marous (10:12):

But the reality is you can't just put your head in the sand, can you? You advise your clients to do something even though it wasn't them, correct?

Steven Ramirez (10:22):

Yes, absolutely, because I think that every single bank customer of every size is wondering the same basic message, "Is my money safe?" Doesn't that get back to, I don't know, 2000 years of banking?

Steven Ramirez (10:39):

And I think that even though it's not happening to your bank or to your customers, your customers are seeing these same messages. They're seeing them on social media, they're seeing it on television. People even at the grocery store are talking about, "Did you see the news?" Like these messages really are everywhere.

Steven Ramirez (11:03):

And I think that it does get to the very essence of banking relationships, it's this idea of trust. What are we doing on a day in, day out, year in, year out to reinforce this kind of trusting relationship? That requires a lot of focus and a lot of attention.

Steven Ramirez (11:22):

And to be honest, Jim, I think a lot of banks take those relationships for granted. I think they say, "You know what, we have a great relationship with our customers, end of story." And it's like, no, the story is not over, it continues to have these new events and that relationship fits within that broader context.

Jim Marous (11:43):

So, let's take it to the tactical level for a second here; with your clients ... when Silicon Valley Bank happened, or when things since then have happened, what have you recommended to the clients that you currently had? So, people you already had an engagement strategy or a conversation and communication strategy in place. What do you recommend to them during this period?

Steven Ramirez (12:07):

So, two things. And I've said this not only to clients, but I've shared this widely on my own social media channel, so this may not come as a surprise. I think first and foremost, I think that you have to be proactive in telling your story of safety and soundness, and why your bank is still the right choice for customers.

Steven Ramirez (12:29):

And I think that goes to the depth of the relationship, but also from a brand perspective, what's the value proposition? Why uniquely you? Because I think that what we're seeing in this environment is that people are questioning those choices. So, that's one thing is to be proactive with just reinforcing the relationship.

Steven Ramirez (12:49):

But the second is to do that across all channels. That this really does require a reminder, not just in a press release, but this is messaging for your website, this is messaging for your emails, and perhaps most importantly, these are talking points that need to get into the hands of anyone who's client-facing.

Steven Ramirez (13:08):

So, my strong recommendation is to be ahead of the curve, be communicating about the strength and security, and value proposition of your bank, and not waiting for a problem to arise.

Jim Marous (13:23):

So, when you first get engaged with a brand-new client, how do you filter out what they think of themselves versus what really is possibly true? It could be different.

Jim Marous (13:36):

I mean, I've worked for finance institutions, we had a great thought of who we thought we were, but it was very clear that the customers didn't really see us that way. When you engage with a brand-new client, how do you find out that gap? And how do you deal with it?

Steven Ramirez (13:53):

Jim, that is a great question. I could tell you've been there, that really speaks to it.

Jim Marous (13:59):

Unfortunately, so, yes.

Steven Ramirez (14:01):

Well, and I think that there's two main ways that you do that. One is, I think an investment in customer research. So, that is the first thing on a new engagement.

Steven Ramirez (14:13):

For example, if we're helping to reconceive of how you take products to market, or we're thinking about the value proposition for the brand, the very first thing is to do a comprehensive research program. And I think that particularly for community and regional banks, I think that there's a mistake that many banks skip that step. I think that they feel like, "We already know the answers, we are good."

Jim Marous (14:39):

"Customers love us."

Steven Ramirez (14:41):

"Yeah, customers love us, we have great relationships, what else do you need to know?" So, that is one is really that research and a very close companion is voice of the customer. So, what are you doing to be able to systematically gain in the customer's own words, feedback about their experience?

Steven Ramirez (15:03):

Are you soliciting that? Are you doing surveys? Are you monitoring social media? Do you have a way for your frontline bankers to be able to record, to take notes on comments that people make? These are the things that I think contribute to the customer intelligence that leads to the customer strategy and communications.

Jim Marous (15:24):

So, when you're talking about crisis — I'm going to get back to this crisis mode. And you talked about, you got to get in front of this, you got to reassure the customers that you're taking care of it, you got to reassure employees, you're good.

Jim Marous (15:36):

What's the balance? Because I would think that you run the risk of ... if you keep on saying you're safe, and you say it over and over and over again, there's going to be some people that think, "Why are you spending this much time telling you me, you're safe? Are you really safe?" And then if you don't do enough, you get into that challenge.

Jim Marous (15:54):

How do you deal with that whole balance of too much versus not enough communication?

Steven Ramirez (16:00):

Yes, so I think that the key difference is in authenticity, I think authenticity. What that means is that you are believable, and you're believable not just because you're saying the same thing over and over again, but because you have a pattern of behavior that backs it up.

Steven Ramirez (16:25):

So, you didn't just pop up today or in the course of the last two weeks and start to share these messages that you have an ongoing program where you understand these key themes and you've been continuing to promote them in a variety of different ways, I think that that is how.

Steven Ramirez (16:44):

And so, in that environment, I don't think that you can overcommunicate. I think the floor is yours, if you will, to be able to bring those messages. And I will just say while that's important with many audiences, it is particularly important with the press.

Steven Ramirez (17:03):

And this is another area where I see a huge gap on behalf of banks and financial institutions, where they are not regularly engaging with the press or in very limited self-promoting ways. And so, when an issue comes up, they don't have the trust of the press to be able to be believable when they make these statements.

Steven Ramirez (17:27):

And so, that comes from this regular engagement of sharing information. And Jim, sometimes that can be uncomfortable. I mean, sometimes, you can be on the hotspot, but that level of discomfort, I think, fades away very quickly when you realize how it reinforces the trust and the relationship with all of your key stakeholders.

Jim Marous (17:54):

Boy, what's very clear here is that those organizations that haven't done a really good job of being empathetic, of being authentic, of being transparent, really are working from a major, major disadvantage during times like these.

Jim Marous (18:10):

When consumers are looking beyond simply, "Are you convenient located?" That is deeper than that. That they go, "Geez, you know what, they've messed up on a couple things, and I kind of ignored it because a bank's a bank." But all of a sudden, this becomes top and center with regard to the overall relationship. And I think what theme you continually come back to is you got to start today for the crisis for tomorrow.

Jim Marous (18:40):

Because you can't just build a crisis communications plan as a standalone component, or else you're not going to bring any authenticity to the table. Steven, you know, as I said, we'll disagree on the 20 years, being 20 years or almost 20 years or longer than me, whatever it may be.

Jim Marous (19:01):

But from a channel strategy, what channels should be used? And is there any channels that should be avoided with regard to crisis communication, or are the same rules in place as they are for all communications?

Steven Ramirez (19:18):

So, I am a believer of meeting customers and meeting external stakeholders where they are. And so, they get to decide how and where they receive messages. So, you may decide that you want to use a particular channel of communication, but you're going to miss people who are not in that place. And so, Jim, I believe that the bank has to impact every single touchpoint with customers. I really, truly believe that.

Steven Ramirez (19:48):

So, I think that that's not just sending email messages or letters and notices or website, or mobile app messages or social media or press releases or customer service scripts or executive talking points, it's all of those. It really genuinely has to be all of those. And yes, on the tactical part, you do have to have a crisis communications plan. You do have to have clear sort of lines of communication and protocols for dealing with unforeseen situations, because those can happen 24/7.

Steven Ramirez (20:25):

That has to be part of it. Your executives do need to have media training. That is a key gap, I think, in many of these organizations, is that media training. But it also has to be pushed out to frontline bankers because they may be the ones who are carrying the message.

Steven Ramirez (20:40):

So, many, many touchpoints, many different messages, and I think that why you need someone to advise you on strategy is getting the right message to the right channel so that it reaches the right people.

Jim Marous (20:53):

Well, it's interesting because as I was thinking about what you were saying; if I got a message on four different channels, they all said basically the same thing, but maybe in slightly different ways, that's going to build my trust that they believe in what they're saying.

Jim Marous (21:08):

If I only get it from email, and I don't get it in any other channel, there's part of me even on a product sales message that says, "Do they really believe what they're saying? Or are they simply just checking off something in the box?" So, let's take a short break here and recognize the sponsor of this podcast.

Steven Ramirez (21:24):

[Music Playing]

Jim Marous (21:24):

Welcome back to Banking Transformed. So, I'm joined today by Steven Ramirez, CEO of the communications firm, Beyond the Arc. We've been discussing the recent crisis in the banking industry and the communication challenges and opportunities that this crisis presents. So, we're often talking about how crisis communication is trying to avoid a problem.

Jim Marous (21:50):

I read recently from some of the stuff you've been posting on LinkedIn and Twitter and other places, that this can actually be an opportunity of a sort. What do you mean by that?

Steven Ramirez (22:01):

I think that — and we've seen this actually in research, when you ask customers about their experiences with companies. If they've gone through potentially challenging or difficult times with you, and they have emerged to a positive place, there's actually a deepening of the relationship. They appreciate you more as a result of those challenges.

Steven Ramirez (22:28):

And part of that you can imagine is it's top of mind, and they've seen how you as an organization have taken on this difficult challenge and been able to succeed. So, I think that there's, even in some of these crisis situations — there is a silver lining that actually leads to a deepening of the customer relationship.

Steven Ramirez (22:47):

But I think that even more tactically than that, I think that the banking industry at this moment in time in today's economy, there are different forces at work. Customers have different needs, we're seeing different forces at play, for example, with high rates.

Steven Ramirez (23:06):

This is an opportunity to reengage with customers and to recast what you have to offer to better meet their needs today. So, I think that this all sort of prompts certain conversations that can happen with customers.

Jim Marous (23:22):

So what you're actually saying is when the rest of the organizations are simply doing crisis communications, if you are reaching out and saying, we're going to understand you better and provide you services that you want based on information we have, you're actually building that credibility that you're trying to do with communications about the crisis, correct?

Steven Ramirez (23:43):

Absolutely, and I'll give you an example of that in the commercial banking space. So, instead of just continuing with your typical message, which is we have products, we have sweeps products, we have cash management products, we have other treasury services, we got products — you need products, we got products, and we got lots of them.

Steven Ramirez (24:06):

But what if instead you said, "In today's environment with interest rates rising, cash flow is more important than ever. We have these as part of an integrated, cash flow management solution. We have these ways, did you know that rather than worrying whether or not you have FDIC insurance, did you know that there may be other solutions for liquidity that you can actually earn more interest or earn higher returns with this risk trade off and give you easy access to your money?"

Steven Ramirez (24:42):

These are the things that liquidity, cash management, cash flow, these are things that are higher on the radar at this particular point in time, and there's an opportunity to engage with that in this example, for example with small business or commercial customers.

Jim Marous (24:58):

So, we've talked a lot about our communications being almost like an outward ... well, I'm going to say a marketing or PR area, communications to customers and to stakeholders and to the community. But you also touched upon the fact that employees are an important component of this.

Jim Marous (25:14):

They worry just like customers do about what's going on at their bank, but they also, as I understand it from what you've written, they also provide a tool for communication. How does that work? How do you alleviate the employee's concerns and then leverage them to help you communicate the security and safety of your organization?

Steven Ramirez (25:34):

Jim, aren't they the most important communication channel? They are the ones who you can, at the home office, you can create all the marketing materials you want. But at the end of the day, it's going to be a banker either at the teller line, behind the desk, at the contact center, those are the ones who are going to be talking to customers, full stop. That's your most important communication channel.

Steven Ramirez (26:03):

And if they are not convinced, then how can they convince anyone else? I mean, you didn't hire them to be actors. They're going to speak from the heart, which is why you have them. And so, that means you have to really understand, and you talked about empathy and the empathy of understanding what are our employees going through in this process? Particularly for some of the banks where the crisis really has hit.

Steven Ramirez (26:31):

So, they are uncertain, their livelihood and the livelihood of their family is potentially at risk. This is what's going through their minds. It may not even be a crisis, I mean, we've seen this even in bank mergers. Like where there's big change, anytime there's big corporate change, then it really impacts employees personally.

Steven Ramirez (26:58):

And then we have to realize that from a communications and employee experience perspective, that if we don't support employees, how will they be able to support our customers?

Jim Marous (27:11):

You said so well, we had an interview with Liz Wolverton from Synovus Bank a few months ago now, and she was talking about the closing up branches, and I said, "What's the most important component to closing up branches?"

Jim Marous (27:24):

She goes, "You have to make sure the employees are on board, because if they're not, those branches are being closed, these employees are not going to do you any favors because they think their jobs are at risk. But if you help these employees understand the logic and show them they're part of the future, they will go out of their way to support you."

Jim Marous (27:44):

And it seems so rudimentary, but we all forget it. We forget that the employees every day go to work going, "Is ChatGPT going to replace me? Is this branch going to be closed and they're going to replace me? Is a merger going to take my job immediately from under me? How do I protect myself?" Well, if you're showing you're going to partner with the employee, they can be your biggest asset, as you said.

Jim Marous (28:09):

So, Steven, I've known you for a long time and you're a third-party provider for communication strategies for financial institutions. What are the advantages of working with a third-party provider, such as Beyond the Arc in creating effective communications beyond a crisis plan? And more importantly, what blind spots do you see when you walk into any financial institution that you go, "Boy, I'm bringing value as opposed to them going to loan?"

Steven Ramirez (28:44):

So, the number one thing that we bring is the outside-in perspective. We understand what it's like to be inside the bank. And actually, Jim, some of our client relationships, I mean, we've actually worked on premise with our clients over a course of long periods of time, so we understand what it's like inside.

Steven Ramirez (29:02):

But we can bring that outside perspective to them. And that's what no bank, unfortunately, they're still just not able to get themselves out of their own four walls, if you will, to understand what's happening outside. And as a result, there is the echo chambers and the commonly held beliefs that everybody knows. And we get to ask really stupid questions like, "How do you know that? What's the background for that conclusion? Have you seen that change over time?"

Steven Ramirez (29:37):

These are being able to question in a safe way because there are people in the organization who want to be able to raise these questions, but they generally are not empowered to do so, or they don't feel that they are. They feel that by questioning that battle of ideas is not welcome in all organizations.

Steven Ramirez (29:55):

And so, being able to have someone who is an advisor, an outsider who is there to support you, but also to challenge you, and to challenge your thinking. And as I said earlier, to bring data and research and insights to the process, I think that is why you want a trusted third party as part of your team supporting you.

Jim Marous (30:19):

So, it was funny, you used this term or very close to this term, that you got to get out of their own way. We see this with every third-party provider. I was talking to somebody today in another podcast around the new account opening process that everybody wants that three to five minutes, and then they buy the service, they buy the solution, the solution comes in, and they immediately get in their own way by saying, "We need this to stay the way it always was."

Jim Marous (30:45):

And you go, "You've just broken what we came in to fix because you wouldn't let go of things." What do you see as you visit organizations, what are some of the ways that bankers get in their own way when it comes to the communications plan?

Jim Marous (31:02):

What do they kind of hold onto for dear life because it's changed and it's not the way they should be doing things going forward. Is it channel strategy? Is it the way they communicate? Is it maybe even the front-end research that you asked them to do?

Steven Ramirez (31:17):

I think that there definitely continue to be some areas of weakness. I think that one is the dreaded bank speak. They speak in a language that is just alien to everyone outside of banking. And this is not just retail, this is also small business, commercial high net worth.

Steven Ramirez (31:37):

And and I've been in many conversations where people say, "Oh, our customers are very sophisticated, they understand all of this." And I'm like, "Yes, and as a matter of fact, I'm very sophisticated too, but I don't have time for it. I want it clear, concise, simple." That is still in short supply in terms of communications.

Steven Ramirez (31:58):

I think the other key issue here is only considering what your bank is doing as if you are the only one doing it. And I think that that is a huge blind spot and is the number one thing that needs to be overcome, because they're just not looking at competitors. And if they are, regional bank is thinking about the competitors down the block.

Steven Ramirez (32:26):

And I'm saying let's look at national FinTech, Neobanks, that are trying to attract your most valuable customers and siphon those off. That's just a different conversation that frankly, people just had not thought about before. So, I think that again, these are some of those steps.

Steven Ramirez (32:47):

There are definitely some gaps, and maybe a first step and this is a common first project that we have with the bank, is doing that kind of assessment. Like let's look at your communications, let's look at the customer journey, let's look at the personas that you're trying to reach and see if there is alignment between all those different factors.

Jim Marous (33:06):

That's interesting because it's an investment that as financial institutions, we tend to want to ignore or avoid or shortchange, but it's the foundation upon which everything else is built. You mentioned about the, you don't know what you don't know.

Jim Marous (33:24):

And we've talked about this before in the show where we have a lot of organizations that don't realize the amount of silent attrition that's happening. That my business bank doesn't realize that my real primary financial institution is PayPal.

Jim Marous (33:38):

My retail consumer bank doesn't realize that my major savings plan is with Acorns and not with them and not with any traditional bank. But that's all money that's being taken from what could have been their solutions and put elsewhere. That's the diminishment of loyalty, the diminishment of trust, the spreading my risk around that really is the situation we're talking about.

Jim Marous (34:07):

Who am I going to really stand up for? The fact that my bank has continuously been in the spotlight for not positive things in the marketplace. Now, I'm lucky in that I can peel back those layers sometimes. But can every consumer or do other consumers go, "You know what, I can't deal with them anymore because they did this to me."

Jim Marous (34:28):

When you look at what you've said and it's so important, number one, as I understand it, is crisis communication starts way before the crisis. That if you don't have great communications in place, you haven't built any really good trust, you haven't really built the brand that you think you have.

Jim Marous (34:47):

Number two, don't assume you know what your customers think because the banking industry has changed. In other words, if you think everybody thinks you have the nicest bank in the world, that may have been back when everybody visited your branch that they don't do anymore. And so, they don't know if Suzy's still there or she isn't still there.

Jim Marous (35:03):

I think third, that it comes back to what we talked about quite a bit in this podcast, which is it gets down to data and analytics. The more you can personalize the message, the more likely the consumer is going to stick with you.

Jim Marous (35:22):

And I think the most important is that you need an outside partner that's going to help you avoid those bad pitfalls, take advantage of those shortcuts, and move forward at scale.

Jim Marous (35:36):

So, finally, one question that I should ask every time I interview somebody in the communications industry right now, including myself — how do you see ChatGPT helping or hurting this communications process?

Steven Ramirez (35:53):

Well, I think that that is a really important consideration. I think that there's no doubt that generative AI is changing ... literally, it's not an exaggeration, it's changing everything. And we've seen even in the news this week, companies now reporting that their quarterly earnings are down because they can now see the erosion that's being created by consumers migrating to ChatGPT as a solution that was solved in a different way by that company.

Steven Ramirez (36:28):

So, I think that this is absolutely key but on the other hand, I think that where generative AI is at this particular moment, there's a lot of noise and there's a lot of garbage. And so, it's adding to the clutter of what you need to break through.

Steven Ramirez (36:46):

And I think that one of the things that generative AI does very well is it creates prose that sounds really nice. I think about it as a lot of like bad college writing. You look at it and all the sentences are grammatical, but it doesn't convey any real significant information. So, I think that there's some real opportunities, but we're certainly not there yet.

Steven Ramirez (37:17):

Jim, I wanted do this before we wrap up. I want to just reflect on your point about diminishment. I think you've really hit on a key element here and I just want to say a quick tale of two banks.

Steven Ramirez (37:29):

We support one of the top five banks that know this issue around diminishment, had a special initiative specifically targeted to bring data and insights and communication strategies to be able to solve for it. So, it's on the radar, the top banks see, that's really key.

Steven Ramirez (37:43):

Tail of the second bank is a $2-billion community bank that when we first started working with them, their first access was trying to get data out of the core to do pie charts. Now, four years later, they have data scientists, models in production, and have deployed 10 new FinTech solutions.

Steven Ramirez (38:08):

So, I think that these trends that we're seeing in the industry can be addressed by community and regional banks. There are ways to be able to get in the game. And if you don't, again, I think lots of these harms that we talked about, like that it's not being close to our customer which ties back to how you fare when there really is a crisis.

Jim Marous (38:30):

You know what, you said it very well. I think what's really exciting, and as my team knows, I'm getting really jazzed about this over the last 6 to 12 months. Some of the most exciting things are being done by the local community and regional banks. They are doing some amazing things.

Jim Marous (38:47):

The partnering with outside organizations for speed and scale of solutions for innovation, for new ideas and for deployment of those ideas is second to none. You don't have to turn the whole semi if you got a pick-up truck that you're driving and it's really exciting.

Jim Marous (39:04):

Steven, thank you so much for being on the show today. I wish I had called you a month ago to talk about the same subject, but I had the feeling this whole crisis communications process is not going to go away anytime soon, so appreciate what it is.

Jim Marous (39:20):

Before we end, how does an organization get ahold of you if for no other reason, than to have a conversation about where they could start if they wanted to start?

Steven Ramirez (39:30):

Start with our homepage, beyondthearc.com and I always say it's beyond the arc with a "C."

Jim Marous (39:37):

Good point, yes. Yeah, and so it's beyondthearc.com, and where do they read what your thoughts are on an ongoing basis?

Steven Ramirez (39:46):

So, we're very active on our blog, but also on LinkedIn and Twitter, and I love to engage in social, so please, follow, reach out because I think that that's where this comes from. It comes from being part of this global community trying to solve these challenges.

Steven Ramirez (40:01):

[Music Playing]

Jim Marous (40:02):

I will leave one last word to all the finance institutions that listen to this. It doesn't do any good to do all the other things you're doing if you haven't got the trust of the customer because then, you're talking to an empty room. There's a lot of things to be done right now, communications can't be left to chance.

Jim Marous (40:20):

Again, Steven, thank you so much for being on the show.

Steven Ramirez (40:24):

Thank you, Jim.

Jim Marous (40:26):

Thanks for listening to Banking Transformed, the winner of three international awards for podcast excellence. If you enjoyed today's interview, please take some time to give our show a five-star rating. Also, be sure to catch my articles on The Financial Brand, and check out the research we're doing for the Digital Banking Report.

Jim Marous (40:42):

This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts. A special thank you to our senior producer, Leah Haslage; audio engineer, Sean Rule-Hoffman, and video producer, Will Pritts.

Jim Marous (40:54):

I'm your host Jim Marous. Until next time, remember, proactive communication during a banking crisis can mitigate risk, provide comfort, and actually help grow your organization.

Hide Transcript