Unlocking Growth Mode Series #1 Unlocking Banking's Growth Mode

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Jim Marous (00:05):

Are you a community banker thinking, “How do we stay competitive in 2025 without losing our personal touch?” At Backbase, they've just released a new research paper that dives right into that. It's called Unlocking Growth Mode for Community Financial Institutions in 2025. It's a strategy snapshot packed with insights for community banks and credit unions looking to modernize without doing a complete tech overhaul.

Jim Marous (00:32):

For instance, you'll learn how to close the AI readiness gap, how to deliver seamless onboarding and personalized service across your entire customer lifecycle, and how to get real ROI from digital investments without ripping out your entire core system.

Jim Marous (00:51):

We're talking about quick wins, FinTech style, agility, and sustainable growth, all while keeping that high-tech service your customers and members love. If you're ready to move beyond buzzwords into the actionable strategy, grab the paper at backbase.com/growthmode, or click the link in our show notes. That's backbase.com/growthmode, and let's unlock growth mode together.

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Jim Marous (01:22):

Welcome to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking, I'm your host, Jim Marous. The banking industry faces unprecedented pressure to shift from a reactive service model to a proactive engagement strategy.

Jim Marous (01:36):

However, many institutions are still hindered by fragmented customer data, disconnected channels, and limited AI capabilities. Banking's future belongs to institutions that can harness the combined power of unified data, artificial intelligence, and seamless experiences to predict and fulfill customer needs before they're even articulated.

Jim Marous (02:02):

I'm joined on the Banking Transformed Podcast by Tim Rutten, Chief Marketing Officer at Backbase, to discuss how finance institutions can unlock the growth potential in an increasingly competitive and rapidly evolving marketplace.

Jim Marous (02:16):

We discuss how leading banks are breaking down the traditional barriers between products, channels, and business units to create a cohesive customer journey that builds deeper relationships and unlocks new revenue streams. Tim also provides actionable insights on prioritizing high impact use cases that can be put in place today.

Jim Marous (02:41):

Imagine the picture of banking's future, one where institutions proactively anticipate customer needs, deliver hyper personalized experiences across all touch points, and transform themselves from transactional utilities to indispensable financial partners in their customers’ lives. This is what we're going to be discussing today.

Jim Marous (03:02):

Before diving into specifics Tim, could you explain a little bit about your professional journey and how it led to your current role as CMO at Backbase?

Tim Rutten (03:11):

Happy to, and thanks for having me on the podcast, Jim. I'm a big fan, as you know, so I'm very pleased to be at the table here and share my experience.

Tim Rutten (03:21):

So, yeah, maybe just briefly, I've been with Backspace now for just over 11 years. The journey started in pre-sales or solutions engineering, essentially being in the customers’ offices explaining what the future could look like if they would move to a platform play.

Tim Rutten (03:39):

And as Backbase, we've been in the area for at least two decades, building out one of the leading digital banking platforms if I may be so free to share that note. And what I've basically seen in my first five years in Backbase, is that the mindset shifts to actually make the move and make the decision and absorb an implementation of sorts, but also move your culture along and upgrade your talent along to really execute on this ambition, it takes a lot of courage, it takes a lot of leadership.

Tim Rutten (04:08):

And I've been, yeah, basically, blessed to have my first five years in the field flying around the globe, also spending a lot of time in the U.S. to meet change agents, and to basically help them understand how to make the move, also to a degree, share our insights and help them educate their boardrooms to make the right call so that they have longevity in their technology stack, and basically can execute the ambition.

Tim Rutten (04:35):

The five years that followed, I operated practically as the right hand of our founder of Jouk Pleiter, the CEO of Backbase, building out capabilities in the company that we were lacking. And eventually, last year, November, I stepped in as full-time CMO to continue the passion that I have to bring Backbase to even higher grounds.

Jim Marous (04:52):

So, it goes without saying that the banking industry today has never seen a time like this. I mean, I've been banking for a long time, and it's never moved this fast, there's all kinds of dynamics.

Jim Marous (05:07):

It's interesting, five years ago, we were dealing with COVID, and we thought, "Man, nothing's ever impacted us more than that." And then within months, we came upon economic uncertainty, and geopolitical uncertainty, and even more competition than we had before, at the same time that organizations outside of banking have really impacted customers' expectations of what they expect from their financial institutions.

Jim Marous (05:35):

What are the biggest obstacles, however, preventing banks from shifting into a growth mode and not playing as much of a status quo scenario?

Tim Rutten (05:47):

Yeah. So, there's a few parts that to me stand out that basically hold banks back to a degree. I think for more than a decade already, we've been talking about, "Hey, you have a whole range of siloed systems in your back office, in your infrastructure. You need to bring those together to be successful in the future."

Tim Rutten (06:09):

However, that story itself doesn't really carry any urgency, because if you feel that your application is four out of five stars today, you're profitable across the board, why would you bother? Why would you make the move and risk your career?

Jim Marous (06:20):

Where's the pain?

Tim Rutten (06:22):

There's no pain or not sufficient enough, because yes, it would be beautiful in a complete platform vision, but if I'm the executive, why would I make the call if I am actually doing quite well on my overall KPIs.

Tim Rutten (06:34):

So, that problem is there, but the problem behind it that you now see becoming more and more apparent is, A, you're probably spending the majority of your IT investment on just keeping the lights running while the actual innovation you're able to bring to the table is limited, which up until a few years ago, was not really an issue.

Tim Rutten (06:53):

It was not really an issue that you were delivering a one size fits all application to a degree, which maybe looked okay-ish or decent, you were supporting your members or customers decently enough. But fast forward to today, that expectation has once more changed dramatically, not just with Netflix or Spotify or Uber — I think those are clear, the expectation is a bit higher.

Tim Rutten (07:15):

But right now, the expectation is vastly different or becoming vastly different, with the new paradigm of AI kicking in. Meaning on the home screen, where your banking application sits, all the other players are embracing AI. There's even big FinTech entering the domain or challenger banks entering the domain that are almost AI native or AI first, and they can bring that to life very rapidly.

Tim Rutten (07:40):

Which results into the following playing ground, Jim — it basically results into players like Revolut, like Chime, like NEWBANK in Latin America, like others in Europe that bring a technology and an execution base to the table that delivers something to the customer base that is vastly different.

Tim Rutten (07:57):

One, their applications are becoming very dynamic if not delivering the segment of one vision, meaning my retail banking experience is vastly different than yours, like literally. Beyond that, the reason that they're so successful, and for instance, Revolut can onboard 1 million net new customers to bank …

Tim Rutten (08:16):

Yes, it's the branding, yes, it's their go-to market, but it's also because they know the amount of money they can spend to acquire net new customers to bank. Because once they're in the bank, they literally have a growth engine, or a growth hacking capability to activate those customers and to expand and deepen the share of wallet that you have with those customers in a very, let's say, hyper-focused approach. Meaning, they know exactly how they can optimize their relationship with Tim, given where he is in his life with his family and his work and his financial, let's say, dealings.

Tim Rutten (08:49):

I think that mindset shift right now, it's almost amplified with the new age of AI kicking in because all of a sudden, you have the capability, or at least the technology is there to truly deliver that at scale. There's no way back anymore.

Tim Rutten (09:04):

So, yeah, coming back to the earlier point, like what's holding banks back? I think the real urgency to change, and then also the translation into, okay, we have to change, fair enough, but how do I then make the transition, how do I eat the elephant essentially?

Jim Marous (09:18):

It's interesting, the banking industry has talked about being customer-centric for decades, not just years, but decades. But the talk has not necessarily been matched by the walk.

Jim Marous (09:30):

It's one thing to build a good user experience on a mobile platform. We're doing that, we get good grades on how well we build and deliver mobile banking. But that's not customer centricity. It's not really looking out for the customer.

Jim Marous (09:46):

And you talked about how the most progressive digital organizations are using digital data, digital delivery, and AI to build better customer engagement models. What fundamental changes are needed to unify the bank and the experience that legacy financial institutions that you're still not seeing?

Tim Rutten (10:10):

I think the main thing to hone in on here is at the end of the day (and I'm really going to oversimplify the roles here), I'm the customer, I'm just one person and I want to be treated in one way by a brand, and that holds true for all brands.

Tim Rutten (10:26):

Now, specifically to my banking relationship, of which I will have many, the days of just having one bank are over. I think clearly that is what you have seen in the industry. But still, the bank that I'm primarily banking with, I'd like to be treated that the bank knows me across my full life cycle, completely, front to back, and is servicing me front to back in a very easy and approachable way.

Tim Rutten (10:50):

Meaning, if I onboard on system A or through point solution number A, I then get my daily banking through point solution B. If I talk to the call center, they're servicing me through another solution C, like that complete flow is broken. That also doesn't allow me as a customer or a client to have the best experience because I'm basically entering all these different windows of apparently the same shop, but not really.

Tim Rutten (11:16):

And what I'm trying to get to is that I have a customer lifecycle. So, I onboard net new to the bank. So, basically, I'm acquired. I then need to be activated, I need to be retained, I need to be expanded.

Tim Rutten (11:29):

Those four boxes are typically being serviced by four different technology stacks, or four different point solutions. Meaning by no means are you going to be able to be as superior as Revolut, as Chime, as any of those other players.

Tim Rutten (11:43):

Now, again, I'm not saying that they're playing in the exact same space, that they have the same death of product portfolio like they do, but over time, they could.

Tim Rutten (11:51):

So, I am going to ring fence them as the common enemy, and what do they have that sets them apart, and that allows them to drive maximum customer lifetime value — that wherever I am in my customer life cycle, there's just one way of consuming the experience regardless of the channel, physical or digital. And I think that's first of all, the thinking pattern that needs to change. And that directly comes back to unlocking growth mode.

Tim Rutten (12:15):

Unlocking growth mode literally means servicing the customer through one digital platform across all touchpoints, infused with data, leveraging AI to have a next generation banking experience that is completely dynamic and completely personalized to get the maximum value out of the relationship, this is for the bank, and get the best experience as an actual end user, which certainly is the definition in the coming few years to play towards.

Jim Marous (12:42):

It's interesting, Tim, because we talked about this on your Banking Reinvented Podcast with Jouk and yourself. And the challenge is every financial institution has all the data in the world, and now that's overstatement. But the reality is they have certainly more data than they're using. But in the traditional banking model, we use this to understand the customers from an internal standpoint, so we can make decisions as to product development, maybe sales models and all this.

Jim Marous (13:14):

But financial institutions really hold back from letting the customers know that we have all this information on their behalf, and actually, deploy solutions against that, which really is holding back that growth mold, because you only can grow if your customers know you know them, or your prospects know you understand them, and you actually deploy solutions against that.

Jim Marous (13:39):

So, what practical steps can institutions take to transform their data from a passive asset into an active growth engine?

Tim Rutten (13:50):

Yeah, if anything, I would say that this industry is sitting on a gold mine, literally, because you have all those customers, you have all that data. Just imagine bringing that together holistically and tapping into it, like it'll set you apart, 100% certain.

Tim Rutten (14:08):

Let me talk a little bit about the patterns or the blueprint that we see in the industry that works. So, first of all, you have an integration challenge because you need to bring all that data, all that capability together in one single layer that has one domain model where all the data entries are literally mapped towards each other and made available to the rest of the ecosystem.

Tim Rutten (14:27):

It literally starts there. You need to solve that integration challenge because you're not going to go into a world of doing core modernization and payments modernization, and basically going through all those modernizations, and then eventually going to actually deliver some value to the customer. It'll take way too much time. Literally, it'll take years.

Tim Rutten (14:47):

Meaning, the approach that we typically see happening in the market that works very well is more progressive. It's more step by step. And you basically almost slice and dice the elephant, as I mentioned earlier. And you start with the biggest problem first. For now, I'm just going to show you what the different ingredients could be.

Tim Rutten (15:01):

So, we have the integration platform as a service. I would personally look into and validate, "Hey, how do we integrate all that data into one single layer?" From there onwards, there's a need to make sure that this data is available appropriately.

Tim Rutten (15:14):

Meaning, how do you make sure that there's one single language to talk to the integration layer with, to make sure that if I query customer data, I get everything on Tim, so that I don't need to query all these downstream systems separately and get all this stuff about Tim, but it's not really sanitized.

Tim Rutten (15:31):

So, that's part one. Get an integration layer in place that brings everything together so you can tap into the data, which is like a data lakehouse, data warehouse layer itself on top, which also feeds into the AI strategy directly. Meaning, with that data being a bit more sanitized and properly integrated, all of a sudden, you can feed the AI models and your machine learning capabilities to drive proper value out of the data that you have.

Tim Rutten (15:57):

On top of that layer, we would talk about this as the intelligence layer, bringing data and AI together in actual use cases, because so far, I'm just talking about infrastructure mostly. So, in the intelligence layer, I would really expect a data and AI capability to come together, and basically power up large language learning models that you have available, typically from the hyperscalers. So, you're not going to self-train one of these LLMs. And on top of that, you want to have an agentic framework.

Tim Rutten (16:24):

And with an agentic framework, I'm not talking about just the buzzword. I'm actually talking literally about which technologies are you going to apply to fire up agents that can actually deal with all the downstream microservices and APIs that are available in the platform.

Tim Rutten (16:38):

Meaning, how do you empower the agent to actually do the different steps and do smart workflows and basically, decide on their own to bring all the relevant data and capability to the table to then eventually, service it up to the customer.

Tim Rutten (16:50):

So, I think if I zoom out like a lot, you basically have your integration in place, you have your intelligence layer in place where data and AI is nicely combined, and then you have your engagement layer. We actually start to orchestrate all the capabilities that you have to service your customer, but also to service your employee population.

Tim Rutten (17:09):

Now, those patterns are industry broad, meaning they're not specific. To Backbase per se, this is really the best practice view on what a digital stack should be looking like. I think also there you definitely want to stand on the shoulders of giants, just like we do.

Tim Rutten (17:23):

We don't build our own infrastructure, we don't have our own data centers, we leverage Microsoft for this is one of our key partnerships. If you think about the data and AI fabric, that's on top of Azure because we can really unlock their capability and we bring the relevant data and the relevant models to drive real value.

Tim Rutten (17:39):

Now, I can go on and on and on, but in essence, the patterns are there, the blueprint is there, so you can really expedite your execution if you can change your mind on how to execute ... moving to a platform potentially.

Jim Marous (17:54):

Well, and it's interesting as you build that platform, as you build that pyramid of insight and data and actually deployment, it really gets you the point that we've been talking about the industry and we're talking about more and more towards that hyper-personalization, the ability to move from a good experience to tremendous engagement, the actual interaction back and forth.

Jim Marous (18:17):

While that all sounds great, and we see it in the marketplace, in other industries a lot, implementing it at scale remains challenging, especially for organizations, financial institutions, that are continuously worried about the risk of saying the wrong thing to a customer. Which is crazy, because we don't have to be perfect if we at least have a value exchange on an ongoing basis.

Jim Marous (18:41):

But can you share some examples of financial institutions that are actually deploying personalization strategies that can impact their bottom line and actually, drive that growth model that we talk about?

Tim Rutten (18:54):

So, if you really think about unlocking growth mode, you will need to get to a model where you're able to segment it out so far, it is so specific to the individual that it indeed can become a little bit dangerous, and dangerous in hyphens here, meaning there needs to be clarity on what you are bringing to the customer at which moment in time. And those patterns or those formulas you want to have a view on.

Tim Rutten (19:18):

So, if I look at it from the Backbase perspective, that can always be the human in the loop part, in the whole flow. Especially in private banking and in wealth management, you see that that is paramount. You need to have a human in the loop step before you send out a certain report or a certain piece of advice to one of your clients.

Tim Rutten (19:38):

If you look at more, let's say, long tail customer base (let's just look at retail for a second), that makes no sense, because the cost to serve will be way too high. You're actually going to drag yourself down. So, you want to set up the system and the applications in such a way that you are comfortable with the almost auto magic campaigns that you're running across the board, across all the applications.

Tim Rutten (20:02):

If you think about marketing towards your existing customer base, so far, it always has been done relatively tactical. Meaning, we're just going to fire up a campaign, if the customer has product A and B, we're going to go for product C, which is very safe in a way. It also doesn't really speak to what this customer is in the middle of or based on their transactions.

Tim Rutten (20:20):

So, what I'm trying to say is you need to bring everything together that is relevant to the customer, and then from there onwards, what you're going to position when it comes to both the experience what's on the glass, but also what you're looking to cross and upsell, it needs to be so much in the moment and in context that it will never come across as abrasive or pushy or, "Hey, you're overstepping the line here."

Tim Rutten (20:40):

Under that assumption, the fear of applying this already becomes a bit lesser the problem. I think the main problem sits with what happens if, let's say, our algorithm starts hallucinating and starts positioning products that don't exist, or that starts putting words and advice that we cannot hold true to, and we are regulated on, as an example.

Tim Rutten (21:01):

Taking a step back, there are clear guard rails in all the, let's say, elements of how you apply AI and agentic and smart workflows to make sure that that actually can never happen to begin with. But it basically means how do you bring that capability to life in an actual end user application.

Tim Rutten (21:18):

So, I think there, there's a lot of learning right now. Every week the frameworks get better, every week the models are getting better. I think there, that's actually ... the mantra in Backbase is to stay one hour ahead of the market, to be smart enough to pick up what is currently the site guys or what's currently the new breakthrough, and actually bring that to our customers.

Tim Rutten (21:35):

Mind you though, I think also in full transparency, I think we are let's say 6 to 12 months ahead of the typical customer. Given the regulatory framework, it's not fully complete or clearly baked. So, typically, they don't want to move that fast just yet, especially when it comes to the customer, that is lesser so on the back office.

Tim Rutten (21:54):

And I think over time when the use cases are even becoming more clear, the adoption and the embrace on how this actually works, probably will get better.

Jim Marous (22:04):

Who's doing it right now? What organization do you look at and you go, you know what, they're kind of ... nobody's at the finish line by far, but who's kind of getting it and doing it in the marketplace today?

Tim Rutten (22:16):

Specifically in the U.S., let's say I don't have a personal relationship with any of the U.S. firms myself, so I couldn't comment to that in detail. But I'll stick with the example of Revolut where in essence, you see that they first of all have completely tailored value propositions.

Tim Rutten (22:33):

So, there's dynamic value propositions where you put together certain products or you go for certain, let's say, level of account and level of servicing, which combines a lot of value-added services that are not per se, banking related.

Tim Rutten (22:47):

For instance, there's even a subscription to WeWork in one of the plans, because you are a persona apparently that maybe is a sole entrepreneur or a proprietor, and there's combinations there that really connect with the individual, which almost makes it a no-brainer to pay for the subscription fee.

Tim Rutten (23:04):

So, there's one angle that's a tailored value proposition where you bring together the right elements to really resonate with a specific target market. Try to do that in a traditional bank, not easy for a variety of reasons.

Tim Rutten (23:16):

The second thing that I think really stands out is how they drive product adoption. So, the moment you are net new to bank, there is a 90-day plan running, if not longer, that basically ensures that you have sufficient touch points to get, let's say, into a pattern and into a mode that you open up the application just like the dopamines in Instagram or other applications.

Tim Rutten (23:37):

So, basically there's a growth hacking mindset in those applications that really ensures that they basically drive you into the bank more and more and more while building credibility, while bringing holistic financial advice to your phone almost daily. That really helps you overall in your financial wellness.

Tim Rutten (23:57):

I think that's an example that is already specific enough to say, hey, okay, well that's the basics. There's much more to come. And I can talk about that as well, but I basically want to make the point that when you get the basics in and the foundational elements in, you get the ability to have tailored value propositions to basically add value-added services into the mix, which you can stand out and go to market with a value prop that is not just a checking account, a depository account, and a credit card.

Tim Rutten (24:22):

There's so much more, which really makes you, let's say, differentiating into the market. And then the moment you enter through the front door, the application itself, it's just a very different animal. I think also, I would really ... I don't want to bump the numbers of the Revoluts here, but you have to experience it for yourself. It's very hard to also verbally explain in a way.

Jim Marous (24:41):

Well, it is interesting, we're seeing increasing collaboration between banks and FinTechs and banks and third-party solution providers, Backbase included. And really, you have to change the way your partnerships work in order to get the most out of the growth engine, out of the growth mode.

Jim Marous (25:01):

How should partnerships be structured today to accelerate a financial institution's ability to deliver growth, to deliver innovation, to deliver better experiences and engagement?

Tim Rutten (25:16):

Well, I think you said the magic word, it's a partnership. So, I would really refrain from saying it's a vendor relationship in the scenario of Backbase as an example — we are most successful with the firms where they truly see us as their partner on the journey, on the transformational journey.

Tim Rutten (25:33):

The moment you just look at a player like Backbase or anyone else in this space, I would argue, as just a vendor and they need to deliver whatever you ask of them, I don't think you're getting the benefit of the technology. I don't think you're getting the benefit of the leadership that's available with these firms and in the collaboration with these firms, which our people are very much exposed to our customers, that also is change in a way, to see the different let's say heartbeat of our people compared to their own. And that cross pollination also really helps in driving transformational projects to the next level.

Tim Rutten (26:09):

In terms of the how, look, A, it's a partnership, so you're really in it together, and you have to, let's say, slice and dice the elephant to make it small, to be able to make pragmatic progress. Meaning, you need to have a way of doing this progressively.

Tim Rutten (26:25):

We talk about this as progressive modernization, that you actually can go piece by piece, block by block, so it's not this massive thing you need to do. You can actually make it small go for an end-to-end use case or go just for the integration challenge to begin with or just start in retail onboarding.

Tim Rutten (26:40):

Meaning, map the opportunity to make a transformational move to something where the business really has a need today. And it doesn't need to be a complete large-scale transformation day one, at all. Those days are also way behind Backbase.

Tim Rutten (26:53):

So, I think there, the level of partnership you want to get into is being so aligned and so calibrated on what will really move the needle for the institution that you can also really execute on it together.

Tim Rutten (27:05):

And the final thing I will add, Jim, is that there's a whole ecosystem of, let's say, smaller FinTech players that bring really great capability. I'll just name SavvyMoney as one example or Entrust. Like they tackle really specific things, similar to Feedzai, like their technology is second to none. No need for Backbase to self-build this and bring this as RIP, not at all. Also, the banks will not, or credit unions will not build this. So, you basically procure also an ecosystem of FinTechs around the transformation that you can bring into the mix easily.

Tim Rutten (27:35):

Also there, it's partnership-driven. You basically build yeah, best of sweet, or best of breed combination of technology that allows you to really get the pace and get off the ground fast while making the right and sound technology decisions.

Jim Marous (27:52):

You're about to have a user conference talking about moving into the growth mode, and a lot of financial institutions are checking off boxes. But at the same time, they're held back with, I'm going to call excuses from regulatory constraints to budgetary constraints, to organizational structural constraints.

Jim Marous (28:18):

What is the biggest hurdle that organizations need to get over in order to move from checking the boxes to really accelerating growth? What have you seen in the marketplace? Because I know this is the focus of your event. This was the focus of our podcast we did together on your platform the other day, talking about getting off-stuck. What is the biggest hurdle that has to be addressed first?

Tim Rutten (28:50):

Yeah, let's start with me sharing that I have the utmost respect for all the senior executives that are in the seat, either in the credit unions, the community banks, or the banks that we are servicing. They do not have an easy map in front of them. Literally, they do not.

Tim Rutten (29:08):

Because the nirvana state that we are talking about here, where you're in a beautiful single platform world, you have all your integrations nicely standardized and available, you're able to unlock your data and AI strategy with an intelligence layer, and you have a standardized engagement layer that drives all of your touch points.

Tim Rutten (29:26):

I think nobody will argue against going there. It's fantastic, let's do it. Let’s either self-build it or let's acquire it, there's different flavors here, but that is not the issue I think, Jim. I think the vision is very clear. I think also that's the feedback that Backbase gets in the marketplace.

Tim Rutten (29:43):

The real hurdle is the fact that that is not how the bank is organized nor the credit union. Literally, they're not organized as such. They're organized in either product lines or lines of business. Then there's a certain leadership structure that also follows a certain hierarchy that has an impact to how you go to market.

Tim Rutten (30:02):

So, I think in essence, you have a bit of a reflection of you get what you organize for. Trying to break out of that pattern, so basically telling the retail banking leadership, "Hey, we're going to decommission your installation, or we're going to move to a new platform. And that's where your new retail experience will be built upon, and all the capabilities will come together."

Tim Rutten (30:20):

And do the same thing to small medium business and to commercial or private or wealth or subset of those, that takes very substantial leadership to break through, which starts immediately at the C-suite.

Tim Rutten (30:34):

So, I think the main thing I'm trying to share here is that this is a boardroom conversation. If the boardroom is not aligned on this vision, even with the most ambitious change makers in a particular line of business or pocket of the organization, we'll probably not be able to move to full needle.

Tim Rutten (30:51):

They might get a great set of progress already in retail or in small medium business or commercial, but to get the full value of a value proposition like Backbase, you basically have to say Backbase is the anchor platform for the complete institution next to our CRM, next to our core. That's the triangle of platforms that we work with. That is the lens through which we're going to analyze every use case and every scenario we would like to bring to life. And all other discussions are irrelevant.

Tim Rutten (31:21):

Also, to get the pace internally, to not have endless debates on how we build stuff. And that's, I think, really the mindset shift that the boardroom needs to realize that if they want to see that type of output and outcome, A, they need to be bought in to actually say, hey, this is the direction. B, they need to organize for that, because otherwise, you're going to just continue running into brick walls because certain players do not want to move for a variety of reasons.

Tim Rutten (31:46):

And then C, the moment you do go for this, you have to see this through. The first six months, you're not going to be successful immediately. Get the MVP out there, get into the new rhythm, the new way of working. Like change management is very hard, and that's also why I really salute the change agents in this industry because I'm looking after the marketing department in Backbase as a vendor.

Tim Rutten (32:10):

I have to drive a lot of change all the time to get the maximum amount of my people and the function and get Backbase on the map completely. Like the moment I would wake up to do that for a complete bank, like I'm impressed.

Tim Rutten (32:22):

So, also, I want to be really clear that I know this challenge is daunting, it is not small, but there's definitely a way out and that's completely the mission of Backbase. We are here to help you to not feel frustrated because you have the vision, but you can't execute on it.

Tim Rutten (32:39):

So, we're basically here to set you free. And we truly believe that if you want to move into growth mode, which the majority of the executives are actually picking up the phone for, we need to grow again, there's only so much efficiency I can apply internally.

Tim Rutten (32:52):

Getting into growth mode means, okay, what are the ingredients to get there? That's basically the platform view and getting into a growth flywheel with your consumer base where you have this massive benefit, Jim, and then I will shut my mouth.

Tim Rutten (33:03):

But the massive benefit is that you have a fantastic brand as an existing institution (you do). You have a whole population of customers that are sitting there. Some of them are dormant, but you have those already. You don't need to newly acquire them to bank.

Tim Rutten (33:17):

So, what happens if you unlock that group on the existing customer base that you have with a platform like Backbase that is completely seamless across the full customer life cycle, across all your lines of business, and also enables your employees to assist them and basically unlock even more value from that population.

Tim Rutten (33:36):

Yeah, I think there's tremendous opportunity by moving into that model. And that's what we also see with our customer base that has all these ingredients in place to execute against.

Jim Marous (33:48):

Tim, we talked about on your Banking Reinvented, and I think what's interesting is it gets back into the whole concept that ... as much as we like to talk about buying the technology that makes this happen, you can't buy technology and not have a growth mindset that can move it forward.

Jim Marous (34:14):

And as much as we try to talk about it, I mean, I know this is what your user conference is going to be about, is what we're going to continue to talk on this podcast and in your podcast about, is at the end of the day, it's about leadership and culture.

Jim Marous (34:27):

And if you don't embrace change, if you don't really look at banking beyond what it's been in the past, you won't get to that growth mode, because you can't buy technology that'll make it all of a sudden, happen on a dime, if your organization can't deploy it in a way, the customer's going to accept it.

Jim Marous (34:46):

And it goes well beyond how good a mobile app looks. And it goes well beyond how you use data if your organization is not structured in a way. So, Tim, finally, as you look forward, and I know you're always looking forward, and being a marketer, you have a positive attitude by nature — what excites you about the near-term future in banking?

Tim Rutten (35:11):

What excites me, Jim, is the following: for the past decade, we've been transforming banks, but mostly on the servicing side of the house. So, by now, you have better digital banking experiences that any of the customers in your bank can use daily to do their self-servicing.

Tim Rutten (35:28):

For the majority, that is lower cost, better experience. That's what it is. So, you're basically lowering your cost to serve and you're delivering probably a significantly better experience. It'll not unlock the full growth potential that you have as an institution.

Tim Rutten (35:41):

So, I think the exciting thing on the short-term is the fact that we're adding something called the sales suite, where in reality, the servicing part is important, but that's more of a cost driver, almost. The sales part is where things get really interesting because that's where you start properly onboarding and originating for certain products, and that's where you start to activate and expand the actual customer base that you are servicing.

Tim Rutten (36:03):

If you bring those two things together on a platform like the one that we've built over the past decade, I really think you're going to find a breakthrough within our customer base, but also with the new ones that will be onboarding.

Tim Rutten (36:16):

Because the final frontier that we're now in when it comes to technology with the whole data and AI wave entering the door pretty aggressively, you have to move. You literally have to, because big FinTech and the Challengers and Neos they do have this by design, and they are picking up the pace and the numbers are showing it, and they're also expanding their value propositions. They are becoming full-fledged banks.

Tim Rutten (36:40):

So, I think there's more urgency than ever, there's better technology than ever, there's more mature vendors than ever. So, I think the answer is really, can we get into that mode in the industry that we can actually break through and literally fight back against the big FinTechs and the Neos and the Challengers.

Tim Rutten (36:58):

So, I think mostly it's hey, let's move in, let's pick up the pace together, let's collaborate. And that to me is very exciting because all these technology waves from the internet to mobile to cloud, they're like a growth spurt for everyone professionally, as well as the institution itself, to really pick up the pace and break through certain legacy patterns or legacy technology. And we're in the middle of that, Jim.

[Music Playing]

Tim Rutten (37:24):

So, we're going to be talking about this indeed, 28th till 30th of April, in Scottdale, Arizona, Backbase ENGAGE. We'll be talking a lot about that on the channels as well as on the podcast. So, if you'd like to learn more, feel free to tap into it. But we'll also have more, let's say, seasoned coverage with Jim, anyhow.

Jim Marous (37:40):

Yeah, if you can't make the event or our Financial Brand Forum that comes up in a week, the reality is we're going to be talking about it on both of our podcasts as long as we're both in our positions because the issue doesn't go away. Thank you so much for being on the show, Tim.

Tim Rutten (37:56):

It's been fun, Jim, thank you.

Jim Marous (37:59):

Thanks for listening to Banking Transformed, the winner of three international awards for podcast excellence. If you enjoy our work, please give us a positive review. In addition, be sure to catch my articles on The Financial Brand and the research we're doing for the Digital Banking Report.

Jim Marous (38:15):

This has been a production of Evergreen podcast, a special thank you to our producer, Collins Blakely; audio engineer, Chris Fafalios, and video producer, Will Pritts.

Jim Marous (38:25):

If you have not already done so, remember to subscribe to Banking Transformed on both your favorite podcast app and on our YouTube channel for more thought-provoking discussions on the intersection of finance, technology, and leadership.