Mayor Justin Bibb: Biden’s Influence

Ken Harbaugh:

If you're a fan of Burn the Boats, hit the follow button to stay up to date with all our newest releases. Thanks, and enjoy the show.

Justin Bibb:

Ken, I think you know this better than anybody, but the Republican Party now, is a party of Donald Trump. And unfortunately, it's become a cult where pragmatic common sense, basic ideas of what the Republican Party once stood for, no longer are relevant.

Ken Harbaugh:

I'm Ken Harbaugh, and this is Burn the Boats, a podcast about big decisions.

My guest today is Justin Bibb, the mayor of the City of Cleveland. He's two years into his first term and has been a leading example of a new generation of mayors that is reimagining what government can and should do for the people it serves. We go back a couple years, so if this gets a little informal, that's why.

Justin, it is great to have you on the show.

Justin Bibb:

Good to be with you, Ken.

Ken Harbaugh:

You have said that America's mayors are on the front lines of every major issue we face today, but the mayors are also, the ones closest to the solutions.

I love the optimism in that, but we are now, in an election year in which the issues you are talking about are going to be used to divide Americans like never before. How worried are you about the ability of Americans in cities like Cleveland and beyond to get through this?

Justin Bibb:

Well, Ken, you raise an important point. This will be a very important election not just for my generation, but for the next generation.

And as I think about the current debate right now, what concerns me is we as a nation, we aren't having an honest conversation about the kind of leadership we need to address these issues.

And Ken, as a mayor of a big city like Cleveland, I see these issues every single day on the front lines from talking to the family members that are victims of gun violence, to talking to environmental activists about how we address our climate and environmental justice needs and issues, to talking to young people who are scared about the future of our democracy.

All those things are going to play a role in this upcoming election, and we must find a way to have honest, common sense, pragmatic conversations about how we move this country forward.

Ken Harbaugh:

You've begun that conversation in Cleveland on a number of fronts, but as mayor, you've spoken out about the impact that the Biden administration has had on cities like Cleveland. I don't think Biden and his administration are getting nearly enough credit.

Can you talk about what ARPA, and even the CHIPS Act, and the infrastructure bill, and the Inflation Reduction Act, what is actually making it to cities like Cleveland and how we can do a better job at giving credit where credit is due?

Justin Bibb:

Well, no president probably since FDR has invested in American cities like President Joe Biden.

I think about the decisions I would've had to make if we didn't have the American Rescue Plan. We would've had laid off hundreds of firefighters, hundreds of police officers, hundreds of teachers in Cleveland without the American Rescue Plan.

And because of the American Rescue Plan, we've been able to lay a strong foundation to seed a comeback in Cleveland.

From the $50 million we have deployed to take a thousand acres of vacant land predominantly in the east side of Cleveland and turn that vacant land into shovel ready job sites for the future, that's progress.

From the work we did, putting $17 million into fund to help us eradicate lead paint in our homes. That is progress.

From the work we did to seed a $10 million neighborhood safety fund to invest in the proven interventions and solutions that we know that can reduce crime on our streets. That is progress.

And that progress in Cleveland would not have been possible without the leadership of President Biden.

You also talked about the CHIPS bill. As you know, president Trump when he was in office, talked a whole lot about bringing American manufacturing back. He talked a whole lot about infrastructure week, infrastructure month.

Well, because of President Biden's leadership, we're going to have an infrastructure decade in America. We're also going to see a whole new industrial revolution happening because of the CHIPS Act. And Ohio and Cleveland are going to benefit tremendously from that.

So, this president, President Biden has delivered on every single point to bring back cities like Cleveland, Ohio.

Ken Harbaugh:

I am sure you have seen the videos (they've gone viral) of Republicans cutting opening ceremony tape, going to groundbreakings, and saying, “Look, what I've done for my district.” In almost every case, they voted against the dollars that made those projects possible.

How do we communicate that more effectively in an election year to the voters who need to continue this progress?

Justin Bibb:

I have a very simple way of doing this when I'm talking to my residents. And I would encourage every voter as they go to the ballot box this upcoming November, ask your member of Congress and whoever you want to vote for president, ask him, “Where are the receipts?”

“How did you vote on the CHIPS bill? How did you vote on the Inflation Reduction Act to help us address climate and environmental justice? How did you vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill? How did you vote on the American Rescue Plan?”

“It's great to show up at the ribbon cuttings, but did you vote and were you a part of the work to make this moment possible?”

So, when voters ask for the receipts, that should tell them how to vote this upcoming November.

Ken Harbaugh:

We're talking about economic issues, I think we would probably all agree that it's the social issues that are really tearing us apart. You have said that reproductive rights is a city issue. Can you explain that and then talk about what's at stake when it comes to issues like that?

Justin Bibb:

Ken, I never would've thought that as a mayor, I would have to come out and talk about what I'm doing at the local level to protect a woman's right to choose.

And as we saw the reversal of Roe v Wade, America's mayors stepped up and we were vocal champions of reproductive choice in this country.

We introduced a critical set of public policy here in Cleveland after the reversal of Roe v Wade, talking about the fact that we weren't going to prosecute women if they sought to get an abortion.

We're going to use the bully pulpit of our public health office to make sure we protect the data when it comes to a woman's reproductive choices. And we were going to join a lawsuit with other mayors across the state of Ohio to make sure we did everything we can to protect choice in this state.

And when our extreme MAGA Republican Party in Ohio tried to eliminate one voice, one vote and increased the threshold to 60%, I knocked on doors, I went to rallies. We mobilized the vote to make sure we have one voice, one vote in Ohio, and we codified a woman's right to choose in Ohio last year.

And so, we made great progress, but this election by reelecting President Biden, by sending Senator Sherrod Brown back to the United States Senate, we have a unique opportunity to codify Roe v. Wade in law once and for all.

Ken Harbaugh:

You've talked about working with mayors across Ohio, across the country. I've got to believe there are some Republicans in that group who privately talk to you and say it's gotten crazy.

What are those conversations like? You don't have to name names, but I have to imagine that conversation is happening all the time with Republicans who just want to get stuff done but see their party imploding.

Justin Bibb:

It happens a lot. I was just in Columbus last week for our annual luncheon with Ohio Mayor's Alliance with local lawmakers in the legislature.

And so many of them came up to me talking about how they are just so sick and tired of the petty politics, undermining the ability of our legislature to see real material progress in Columbus.

And Ken, as you know, as a mayor, I don't have the luxury of passing the buck to the next legislative session. My residents want to see real change now.

But I would tell you this, despite the craziness we're seeing in our legislature right now, there are some common sense pragmatic Republican lawmakers who want to see real progress and change in Ohio. I'll give you one example.

Through a spin class I used to go to here in Cleveland, I met State Senator Nathan Manning, his wife was my spin class instructor.

And in 2022, my administration was leading an effort to expunge low level marijuana convictions for our residents. And unfortunately, the courts tried to stop us. In fact, they did stop us.

And State Senator Nathan Manning reached out. He said, “Mayor Bibb, I love what you guys are trying to do up in Cleveland. How can I help make this effort around criminal justice reform statewide?”

So, our teams got together, we came up with a piece of legislation, he included it in his bill, Senate Bill 288, and then Governor DeWine signed the legislation. And now, every city and every county across the state can expunge low level marijuana convictions.

So, it can be done, but we need more common-sense, bipartisan lawmakers like State Senator Nathan Manning all across this great state here in Ohio.

Ken Harbaugh:

Where that good intention and common-sense approach to government seems to break down on the right is when it comes to Trump. And it happens almost every time.

I've met Nate. We won't pick on him, great guy. But there aren't folks like that speaking out in an election year against the president who tried to undermine democracy, who has cozied up to Putin as betraying a country that is fighting for freedom, not just for itself, but for the entire Western Alliance.

Why is Trump such a singular figure in his ability to intimidate those air quotes “good Republicans”?

Justin Bibb:

Ken, I think you know this better than anybody, but the Republican Party now, is a party of Donald Trump. And unfortunately, it's become a cult where pragmatic common sense, basic ideas of what the Republican party once stood for, no longer are relevant.

I'm not that old. I turn 37 this upcoming Friday, but I still remember the Republican Party of Jack Kemp, the Republican Party of Mitt Romney, the Republican Party of Paul Ryan, and others who would work with Democrats to get things done.

And it's unfortunate that that Republican Party is not as vibrant, it's not as boisterous as it once was. And I think having a strong diverse Republican Party only helps the Democratic Party and only helps our country and therefore our democracy.

And so, while I'm optimistic that after this election and we can finally get beyond the party of Trump, is going to take a new generation of Republicans to step up and take the mantle and truly do a better job of speaking truth to power to remake the Republican Party and to the party once again of small government.

And I don't see that happening anytime soon over the next upcoming election cycle.

Ken Harbaugh:

You said that a vibrant, boisterous Republican Party actually helps the Democratic Party. That's not something I hear often, and it's something I believe to my core, a healthy democracy requires that kind of good faith political competition. I take it that's what you mean by that. It actually makes us better and more responsive as a party.

Justin Bibb:

Absolutely. It's what our founding fathers sought out when they created this country. And I believe that having a two party system that's vibrant, that's diverse only helps the country long term.

But I also think that we are seeing a movement now, particularly among a newer generation of voters where they're more likely to be independent. As I travel across this state, I recognize that in many ways, folks still think Ohio is a purple state, and I still do as well.

This is a state that President Obama won twice, a state that Senator Sherrod Brown has been very successful in as our senior senator.

And I think what's missing is a group of candidates, particularly in the Democratic Party that can speak to all sides of Ohioans. Whether you live in Zanesville, or Columbus, or Cleveland, or Massillon.

We need Democrats who understand what a commonsense Ohio agenda looks like around jobs and economic opportunity, around addressing gun violence, around making sure we can have a green energy economy in Ohio that benefits our entire state.

All those things are majority of all Ohioans agree on. We just need more candidates who can speak that troop to power.

Ken Harbaugh:

Well, let's talk about one of those candidates, Sherrod brown. That ‘24 election obviously is going to be dominated by the Trump Biden contest, but it is going to matter all the way down the ticket. Control of the Senate is going to be decided very likely in Ohio and places like Ohio.

How is Sherrod doing and how are you helping? How can Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati make the difference there?

Justin Bibb:

Senator Brown is off to an amazing start. Not only is he my United States Senator, he's my resident. He lives in Cleveland, Ohio, in Ward 2 in the southeast side.

But he is hit the ground running. He's had an impressive start in terms of fundraising, and I'm looking forward to working with the big city mayors across the state to knock on doors, post community gatherings and parties to get out to vote.

We need Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati to show up and show out and do more than its fair share to protect Senator Sherrod Brown and his bid to win reelection. And I can't even fathom having two US senators in J. D. Vance and Bernie Moreno representing Ohio.

I don't want to even entertain that scenario. So, I'm doing whatever I can to reelect Senator Sherrod Brown to another term, to the United States Senate.

Ken Harbaugh:

Can you talk about the stakes? We see what happens when someone like J. D. Vance beats a true public servant like Tim Ryan and is now, carrying the torch for Russia in the United States Senate? I couldn't believe what he has been saying over the past few weeks.

Talk to us about Bernie Moreno and what he represents. And just the fundamental shift in Ohio politics that would signal if he beats a public servant like Sherrod Brown.

Justin Bibb:

We’re going to have potentially two extreme MAGA Republicans dictating Ohio's agenda and Washington DC. And frankly, to me, that is not representing the values of this state.

Now, I was quite pleased when we had Senator Rob Corbin and Senator Sherrod Brown representing us in the United States Senate because in my opinion, they both were common sense lawmakers who understood Ohio's values and Ohio's ideals.

And so, I'm concerned that we're going to go to the extreme right once again on abortion, the extreme right once again on taxes, the extreme right on not addressing climate change, and the extreme right on not preserving and protecting American democracy.

And in terms of foreign policy, look, we understand that we need someone in the US Senate that's going to be a voice of reason given all that's at stake at home and abroad. And that's why we have to send Senator Sherrod Brown back to the US Senate for another six years.

Ken Harbaugh:

You’ve brought up climate a couple times now, and if I recall correctly, you've said that you see yourself as a climate mayor, but you never imagined that when you were campaigning.

It's probably until very recently, not something that is at the top of the list of a mayor's priorities, but it's become one of your top issues. How did that evolution occur?

Justin Bibb:

Well, I'm so grateful to be the current chair of Climate Mayors, a group of over 300 mayors from both sides of the aisle, all focused on addressing climate change across the country.

And Ken, when I was running for mayor, polling very, very, very low in 2021-

Ken Harbaugh:

2%.

Justin Bibb:

2%. Knocking on doors talking to voters, I remember an interaction I had with a single mom on the east side, a black family, and she was telling me about the low air quality in our neighborhood and how that affected her son's asthma.

And in doing the research, I quickly discovered that this part of the city had some of the lowest rates of air quality and one of the lowest tree canopies in the city.

But yet a couple blocks to the west, on the west side of Cleveland, you had some of the highest rates of air quality and a lot more of a more robust tree canopy. To me, it was a climate and environmental justice issue from that standpoint.

And so, every decision I make as mayor is through a lens around both climate and environmental justice, to the green jobs that are available right now, and to this new burgeoning green economy.

To the work we're doing to weatherize homes to lower the energy burden as one of the most energy burdened cities in the country, to making sure we can finally see real development and change on our waterfronts to really be a resilient city long term.

All those things are interconnected. And as a mayor, I have a major opportunity to really set the tone at the local level to address these issues.

Ken Harbaugh:

I'm making a broad overgeneralization here, but there seems to be a real difference in how younger mayors approach leadership.

And maybe it's as simple as an innovative mindset, but I'm thinking of Pete Buttigieg, who we've had on this show, or the mayor of Baltimore who made headlines after the Key Bridge collapse and his leadership of his community through that.

There just seems to be a different approach altogether. Am I giving you all too much credit?

Justin Bibb:

No, I mean, listen, it's a new wave of leadership, I believe. And I really think that way of leadership started after and during the pandemic.

During the pandemic, it was America's mayors who were probably the most trusted voices about what was going on during that national crisis.

They were the ones getting PPPE out to residents and neighbors. They were the ones coming up with strategies around the vaccine. They were the ones leading efforts for folks to get tested during the pandemic.

And so, I think the pandemic, not only the pandemic of COVID-19, but the murder of George Floyd really elevated America's mayors as the voice of reason and a voice of real change.

And as we see all the dysfunction in DC right now, I think we are quickly becoming a nation of city states where all the innovation, whether it be around jobs, the economy, climate change, addressing gun violence, all those innovations are now being led by some of the best leaders in the country. And those leaders are mayors.

Ken Harbaugh:

There's a downside to that, and you have remarked on the rural urban divide. I'm going to pull a quote here. You said, “In Ohio, it's not a Democrat or Republican issue, it's an urban rural divide.”

America cities are charging ahead. Some of them are doing great, most of them are doing better than the rural communities that surround them, that is leading to friction that we don't know how to manage. And it's politicized.

Justin Bibb:

You're right. And I remember one of my first interactions as mayor in Columbus during an Ohio Mayor's Alliance event and a Republican lawmaker, which I will not name, he asked me about my tenure so far as mayor.

And he said, “Well, Mayor Bibb, let me give you a little piece of advice. If you ran your city like we run our townships, you'd be a lot better off.”

Think about that for a second. Running a city as diverse and unique and as complex as Cleveland is very different than running a rural township. And both cities have equal importance to the state, don't get me wrong. But my challenges are unique and different.

And unfortunately, as they've continued to erode and attack home rule, many members of the legislature in Columbus don't recognize that stark void and difference.

That's why I do whatever I can to expose rural Republican lawmakers to what's happening in Cleveland and really expose them to the breadth and scope of what we're faced with.

Everything from how we maintain great assets like our three world-class sports teams, to the needs we need around housing, to the needs we have around jobs and higher education. All those things play a role in how we make tough decisions.

And I think through more exposure, more listening, more open, honest dialogue, we can bridge this rural urban divide.

Ken Harbaugh:

I think that exposure is the key to almost every problem we face as a society. I go back to this quote often, but the idea that it's hard to hate up close. You have talked a lot about the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion in city government and in the city.

I think that is such a powerful force to address the division that besets us now, but it has also, become the latest bogeyman on the right.

Seems like every couple of years they come up with something. It was CRT not too long ago. They seem to have forgotten about that. It's kitchen appliances now. They're talking about Biden's government coming for your kitchen appliances, and lately it's been DEI.

Why do you think they are so terrified of the idea of diversity?

Justin Bibb:

Well, I love how my brother and friend Mayor Brandon Scott, reversed that DEI and acronym. Now, he calls it duly elected incumbent, which I love. And I'm supporting him for his reelection to lead the great city of Baltimore, Maryland.

But I think what the Republicans do a really good job of, unfortunately, is they know how to weaponize these cultural issues in a way that distracts people from the real issues we should be focused on.

So, instead of talking about how we can do a better job of having red flag loss and common sense of background checks, and getting rid of the ability of folks that have assault weapons, they talk about CRT, and DEI, and transgender folks in sports. It's a distraction.

And in many times, we as Democrats, we fall for the bait. And I think it's important for us as Democrats to stay focused on the issues, but as we stay focused on the issues, we need to tell the stories of the voters that we're impacting every single day.

And as a mayor, I don't have the luxury of getting distracted with these DC Republican talking points because Mrs. Smith at Olivet institutional Baptist church doesn't give a damn about it. She wants her trash picked up, that pothole fixed, and a safe park for her grandkids to play at. That's what I wake up thinking about every single day.

And in my opinion, I wish every member of Congress could spend a month serving as a mayor. And I bet if every single member of Congress did that, we'd get a lot more done in DC.

Ken Harbaugh:

I bet we would. I bet we would. Can you also talk about the power of diversity to strengthen communities? I almost wore my The Land Was Built by Immigrants t-shirt, but I knew you'd be wearing a tie, so it didn't. But Cleveland is an incredibly diverse city and better for it.

Justin Bibb:

I had an up-close opportunity to experience this when I went on the inaugural flight from Cleveland to Dublin that we just did with Aer Lingus last year. And I didn't know a lot about the Cleveland Irish connection until I landed in Achill Island last spring.

And in my research, I quickly found that over a quarter million people in Cleveland call Achill Island in Ireland home, and many folks in Ireland escaped famine and escape religious persecution in Ireland to come to America and come to Cleveland for their version of the American Dream.

And like many Black Americans who came up to Cleveland from the segregated south, many Irish Americans came to Cleveland to be a part of our industrial revolution as well too.

And it's that story to me that makes the American experiment so powerful. That's why I'm so optimistic about Cleveland's future and our country's future because that's in our DNA and we just need to find a way to get back to that in terms of how we think about coming together as a community.

Now, don't get me wrong, we have a lot of challenges and issues we need to tackle in terms of our country's immigration challenges. Of course, we need bipartisan immigration reform. Of course, we need to have a safe and secure border.

Of course, we need a pathway for citizenship, for folks who want to come to our country and play by the rules and work hard and be a part of the Great American experiment.

But until we have folks in DC who can come together and have that conversation, we're going to continue to see this be a wedge issue against Democrats and Republicans.

And we need the talent here in Cleveland. We need to grow our population. I hear from companies all the time about the need for diverse immigrant talent. And so, this is a major problem and we need to find a way to get some real progress once and for all.

Ken Harbaugh:

Is your overall optimism shared by other city mayors? Are they bullish on the future of cities and the future of America because of that?

Justin Bibb:

Oh, and maybe it depends on what day of the week, but no. All kidding aside, I think this crop of mayors leading cities right now, is very optimistic about the future because we have no choice but to be optimistic because so many of our residents are depending on our leadership.

And for me, my big source of optimism really comes from my family. My dad was one of the first black cops and firefighters in the suburb of Cleveland and Cleveland Heights.

My mom, while it took her over 20 years to get her associates, her bachelor's and her masters, finally became a social worker. My grandma was a small business owner who then became a community activist to fight crime and keep our blocks safe at the height of the crack epidemic in the 1990s.

I have no choice but to be optimistic because I've seen optimism and resilience in my life.

And I pray that in this election, we work our butts off to reelect senator Sherrod Brown, reelect President Biden, and hopefully turn the page on the politics of chaos and division, and finally have a politics of compromise, a politics of progress, and a politics of optimism once again.

Ken Harbaugh:

Correct me if I'm wrong, I have it in my research notes, was your dad also, a US Navy diver?

Justin Bibb:

He was a diver in the Navy in Vietnam. Yep.

Ken Harbaugh:

That's pretty badass. That's awesome.

That optimistic sensibility I think might also, be inherent to progressivism. I've had this conversation with Senator Brown.

The whole premise is the idea that progress is possible, it's natural if the conditions are set right, as opposed to conservatism, which seeks to either preserve a status quo or return to a great again world.

Go back to the 1950s, which is the whole MAGA appeal, an imagined America, where a certain group was on top. I don't know if you've given your optimism much of a philosophical — or seen it through a philosophical lens, but I think it might be part of our shared progressivism.

Justin Bibb:

It really is. And I don't necessarily consider myself a progressive in the contemporary sense. I believe in progress, don't get me wrong. And I believe in the simple motto of well done is better than well said.

And as someone who is still new and early in their political career, the best thing I can do is do everything humanly possible within my power to deliver on everything I campaigned on when I ran for mayor.

And don't get me wrong, it's very hard in a job like this where there's so many battles, so many fights, so many interest groups to manage and coalesce together.

But at the end of the day, if every politician, whether you're running for mayor or city council or school board or president, if you just delivered on as much as you could of what you campaign or promised voters, to me, that's the social contract.

That's why you're in office, to be a conduit for them to be their voice. And to me, that's what progressivism should be about. Progressing on the issues you champion and campaigned on and being a part of what I call the get stuff done party.

Just get stuff done because folks are just too tired, too stressed out. Everyday folks got too much on their plate to be worried about all the chaos that we see in local government and state government and at the federal government in DC.

They just want us to do our jobs because they have to work every single day and do their jobs and put food on the table and pay their bills.

Ken Harbaugh:

I don't think most of this audience is going to appreciate the challenges you face. When you took office, Cleveland was ranked the poorest big city in America.

I mean, we've spent 33 minutes now, talking about the future and progress, and what we're doing, what you're doing for your residents. But it is a mountain to climb.

Justin Bibb:

It is. And we took office with a myriad of challenges. First new mayor in nearly two decades. And I always thought it would happen faster in terms of changing the culture, but you can't change a bureaucracy overnight.

And one of the lessons I learned in my first six months in office, because I was in a hurry to get stuff done, sometimes you got to go slow in order to go fast. So, what does that mean?

Well, sometimes you got to bring people together in a very intentional, thoughtful way to build trust, to build, buy-in, to get the long-term sustainable systemic result that you seek and want to see happen.

And I think we've done a really good job of setting the tone since we took off. From the work we've done to modernize city hall, from our new website, to our new 311 call center we'll be launching later this summer, to our new open data portal to be a more transparent, open government.

To the work we're doing to cut down on violent crime. One of my big goals is to make Cleveland one of the safest big cities in the country. Already, year to date homicides are down over 40%, carjackings down over 30%. We're making progress on that.

We're also making progress on finally seeing real development on our waterfronts, from the Cuyahoga River to Lake Erie.

And every mayor, probably since Tom Johnson has had a lakefront plan. But we think this is the time where the plan will actually come into fruition from the grid alignment we see in DC and Columbus as well to here at the county and with our city council. This is the moment to see cranes in the sky on our waterfronts.

And so, we made a lot of good progress. There's so much more to be done, Ken, but I'm pleased with where we are and excited for what's ahead.

Ken Harbaugh:

This is super local, but I love that you refer to waterfronts. I was just at Wendy Park yesterday. We are such a special city in that we have a world class river that was on fire just a generation ago and it was a-

Justin Bibb:

50 years ago, yeah.

Ken Harbaugh:

Just 50 years. Alright, my math's a little off, but-

Justin Bibb:

It’s all good.

Ken Harbaugh:

… it is a case study in what government can do when it is held accountable. And the Cuyahoga River, you can fish out of it now, and Lake Erie as well.

What happens to all this? What happens to the whole approach to progress if Trump wins? If we lose the kind of mentality that got us the CHIPS Act and the rescue plan and the infrastructure bill, what's at stake?

Justin Bibb:

There's a whole lot at stake. I'm worried that we're going to see a slowdown of investment in cities. I'm worried we're going to see another major attack on mayors like we saw when Trump was at the helm.

Because so much of the progress we've made since I took office has been because of the strong partnership I have with the White House and with leaders in DC and the Biden Harris administration.

Think about this for a second. This president has made the largest investment, probably any leader has ever made in history to address climate change and advance environmental justice.

And if President Biden does not win reelection, who knows what Trump is going to do to gut all the gains we've made to protect our earth, especially today as we celebrate Earth Day.

And so, we need to work our butts off this upcoming election and tell the voters about the receipts that Biden has delivered on to deliver for Clevelanders and deliver for the American people.

Ken Harbaugh:

That is a fantastic note to end on. Mayor Bibb, thank you so much for joining us.

Justin Bibb:

Thanks, Ken, for having me. Will see you soon, brother.

Ken Harbaugh:

Thanks for listening to Burn the Boats. If you have any feedback, please email the team at [email protected]. We're always looking to improve the show.

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Burn the Boats is a production of Evergreen Podcasts. Our producer is Declan Rohrs, and Sean Rule-Hoffman is our audio engineer. Special thanks to Evergreen executive producers, Joan Andrews, Michael DeAloia, and David Moss.

I'm Ken Harbaugh, and this is Burn the Boats, a podcast about big decisions.