Navigating the Potential of Open Banking

Jim Marous (00:07):

Welcome to another episode of Banking Transformed, the podcast that dives deep into the trends, innovations, and strategies shaping the future of banking. I'm your host, Jim Marous, owner, CEO of the Digital Banking Report, and co-publisher The Financial Brand.

Jim Marous (00:22):

By enabling secure data sharing between financial institutions, FinTechs, and third-party providers, open banking can foster innovation, enhance competition, and ultimately, deliver better financial products at the right time to consumers.

Jim Marous (00:40):

With open banking, consumers will be able to access personalized services, compare offerings from different providers, and make more informed decisions.

Jim Marous (00:50):

In this episode of Banking Transform, we have Deep Varma, the CTO at Alkami, and he explores the technological challenges, regulatory developments, and strategies for success in the new era of financial services.

Jim Marous (01:05):

Deep also, discusses how organizations of all sizes can be positioned to embrace the open banking revolution leading to more consumer centric, efficient, and embedded financial services.

Jim Marous (01:22):

To prepare for open banking, financial institutions must develop a clear API strategy that aligns with overall business goals. Fostering a culture of innovation and collaboration with FinTechs and third-party providers will be essential to enhance open banking offerings and provide complimentary services that can provide differentiation in a crowded marketplace.

Jim Marous (01:45):

Finally, institutions must educate and engage consumers about the benefits of open banking, addressing their concerns around data strategy and privacy.

Jim Marous (01:56):

So, Deep, we met a little over a year ago at Alkami Co:lab just after you joined the company. We also, saw each other a few months ago at your Co:lab event this year.

Jim Marous (02:07):

Could you provide a little bit of a summary about your really interesting background and career path and your role at Alkami?

Deep Varma (02:15):

Sure. So, look, first and foremost, it's always pleasure to be with Jim because I enjoy our conversations. That's always the fun.

Deep Varma (02:23):

So, a little bit about myself. I'm a technologist. I am here to use the technology to solve the problems for the businesses and ultimately, for the consumers.

Deep Varma (02:35):

And I'm based here in Silicon Valley. I've been here in Silicon Valley for over 25 years. And I joined Alkami last year, January, as a Chief technology officer to ensure that our banking platform is aligned with where the industry is going and bring more innovation. And open banking is part of that strategy too. So, that's the role I play here at Alkami.

Jim Marous (03:03):

So, before we dive in, because the banking industry has a tendency, myself included, to either oversimplify or overcomplicate definitions. So, from your perspective, what is open banking and why is it crucial to understand and integrate with an open banking platform for the future?

Deep Varma (03:23):

So, Jim, I come from a very consumer driven mindset. So, I'm going to speak a consumer language to make it simple what is open banking.

Deep Varma (03:33):

So, open banking empowers a consumer to decide who to share the data with, and also, to decide that I as a consumer gets the benefit of that data.

Deep Varma (03:51):

So, that's the way I look into it from a consumer point of view. That I am empowered to decide, share this data with this FinTech or with this FinTech based on the value coming back to me. That's the way I look into it.

Deep Varma (04:06):

For businesses and for the financial institutions, having a platform which provides an API access to the FinTechs, so that FinTechs can seamlessly and easily consume this data to provide the value back to the consumers. But at the end, consumers are the one those who are going to win with this open banking.

Jim Marous (04:34):

Well, when you look at financial institutions, there's been a lot of activity in the open banking area. Many financial institutions really don't understand how to get engaged with open banking platform and to allow those opportunities.

Jim Marous (04:47):

But just as importantly, as soon as some organizations get involved and start going down the path, regulations come into play.

Jim Marous (04:57):

And regulators are, in my opinion, somewhat playing catch up with regard to a lot of our regulatory and compliance issues. In fact, the UK was several years ahead of the US with regard to their open banking regulations.

Jim Marous (05:11):

So, overall, the US regulators, how have they influenced the development of US open banking and what further actions do you anticipate that could either constrict or expand the opportunity for financial institutions really of all sizes?

Deep Varma (05:30):

Frankly speaking, I've been waiting for years for this open banking finally come to US. When you look around, we are lagging behind in this open banking. UK, Asian countries, and very African countries, they're way ahead in this game as compared to the US.

Deep Varma (05:50):

When I was at Varo Bank before joining Alkami, I've been working very with the regulators. I think there is enough pressure has been built on top of the regulators from the consumers on opening up the banking platform where regulators finally came and said, "If we don't do this, we won't stay as an innovative in this industry and especially in the US." So, that's what I see.

Deep Varma (06:23):

So, I think this is to me, the step number one in the open banking where we are saying, “Consumers, you have a right to decide who to share the data, when to share it, and how to get the value.”

Deep Varma (06:39):

But what I see where we are going to go, where now, regulators are going to come and say how this data portability is also working. So, what I'm expecting to see, Deep tomorrow decides I don't want to work with this financial institution.

Deep Varma (06:58):

Jim, today if I had to go to a different financial institution, I lose all my data from this financial institution. I have my bill payment set up, I have my recurring payment set up. I had to rebuild everything from the scratch.

Deep Varma (07:15):

So, I expect the data portability is going to come into a picture as I can go and change my AT&T carrier to the Verizon and still keep the same number. I expect this is the next phase which is going to happen.

Deep Varma (07:30):

And I expect there is some regulations around the risk and the security associated to it going to come more and more. How do we ensure that this data remains safe and secure in some kind of a vault? That's the second area which I expect we will see the regulation.

Deep Varma (07:52):

And then the third place, which is mostly the industry has to do a better job, is looking into the financial inclusion, the financial literacy. Those are the areas where I see more and more momentum building up.

Deep Varma (08:06):

Jim, there are many people, millions of people, those who have no idea what they can do with this data to improve their life conditions. So, that's what I see, those three areas, which is we are going to go more deeper in coming years.

Jim Marous (08:21):

Well, there's obviously significant regulation coming on board with the CFPB open banking role. What does that entail? And how does that, again, getting back to where we've been versus where we're going, how does this really help financial institutions prepare for the future of more of an open banking and embedded banking universe?

Deep Varma (08:48):

I think first and foremost, financial institutions needs to consider open banking, not as a burden, but more as a part of an obligation to serve their consumers.

Deep Varma (08:59):

Because when I talk to certain financial institutions, they think, “Oh my God, we have another burden coming on our way.” I won't consider a burden. I will say, this is how you serve your customer.

Deep Varma (09:11):

What they need to do is, one, they need to ensure they have the infrastructure to support this new regulation that they can allow the FinTechs to come and access the data.

Deep Varma (09:25):

The second thing is they need to also, use open banking to see how to improve their own business processes, how to improve the customer experience. There are times the customers are leaving financial institutions because you are not providing them the right services or you are not providing them the tools.

Deep Varma (09:48):

So, I will say technology will play a role in ensuring you have an infrastructure to scale, but then financial institutions also, needs to look into their internal business processes and the tools also inside to see are they ready to serve the consumers for the open banking or not.

Deep Varma (10:12):

So, those are the two areas where they need to focus on.

Jim Marous (10:17):

It's interesting in the banking industry today, compared to what it was four years ago, five years ago, the collaboration with third party providers such as Alkami and many others that really are providing the education, the tools, the expertise, the personnel in many cases to become future ready and resilient going forward. I mean, these are powerful tools for these collaborations.

Jim Marous (10:42):

What is Alkami doing to today to help what I'm going to call mid-level financial institutions, even smaller finance institutions, prepare for and build for the future of opening banking environment?

Deep Varma (10:58):

So, number one, we are definitely investing in scaling our infrastructure. Because what's going to happen is with the amount of the network that we have, soon we are going to see more consumers are going to come and say, "I want my data to be shared with FinTech one, FinTech two, FinTech three."

Deep Varma (11:20):

And you cannot continue to scale with the screen scraping techniques because screen scraping techniques are very dangerous. It's very dangerous.

Deep Varma (11:31):

So, it means invest in the open APIs, the standard APIs where you enable consumers to come to the financial institutions app and give up permission. And then our platform needs to be resilient enough and scalable enough that it can autoscale when the traffic is coming in.

Deep Varma (11:53):

And the second piece is as we allow the infrastructure to scale for the financial institutions, because that's the reason they come to us, they come to us, “Hey, we don't have that technology and the infrastructure.” You lean on us. So, invest in APIs, invest in infrastructure.

Deep Varma (12:09):

But the second piece, which is also important with the open banking, as the FinTechs and the third parties they take the data, they drive the value out of that data.

Deep Varma (12:23):

How do we bring that value back to our platform to give it back to the consumer? Because the mobile banking is the way for them to engage. And it's very tough for the consumers to have 20, 30 mobile apps on their device to go to the different, different places and look into the data.

Deep Varma (12:44):

So, what I call this as a super app concept. So, this is where I log into my financial institution's mobile app, I know where my data has been shared, and I can have a one centralized place where I can see the value of that data.

Deep Varma (13:00):

So, that's what Alkami, Jim, is focused on today. Scaling the infrastructure, scaling the APIs, and bringing the data back to the consumers from the third parties so that they can make the right decisions for themselves.

Jim Marous (13:16):

It's interesting, open banking involves multiple components of how banking interacts with the consumer as you mentioned.

Jim Marous (13:23):

We have a situation where, in my case, I end up opening multiple financial institution relationships, both my primary financial institution elsewhere. And they don't always talk with each other very well. Open banking can help address that.

Jim Marous (13:37):

In the same sense, I want to have a way to roll up all my information so I can see my financial profile in one place, in one area, and really make it so that I have a partner that can help me along my financial wellness journey.

Jim Marous (13:54):

When you work with mid-size financial institutions today, what are the major technology challenges that most of these organizations face when trying to prepare for an environment where they can become the real final partner for the consumer?

Deep Varma (14:15):

I think what I have seen most, one of the challenges, not around the technology, but the challenge is mostly around how open banking is going to impact me as a financial institution. And the second is what I'm supposed to do with it. So, those are the two areas they're struggling.

Deep Varma (14:35):

And I think from a technology point of view, while platform like Alkami will help them from enabling the consumers to decide who to share with, I think their internal technologies at this time are heterogeneous, where their internal tools are not connected with each other and they don't talk with each other. The risk system, the security system-

Jim Marous (15:07):

I mean, honestly the product system too because you have product silos that make it so my loan relationship doesn't talk to my deposit relationship, things of that nature.

Deep Varma (15:15):

Exactly, exactly. So, your account opening, your risk and fraud systems, everything is disjointed today. I think to serve the consumer with the open banking, you need to start thinking from a consumer 360 as a centralized point of view to solve that problem.

Deep Varma (15:38):

So, that's what I think the biggest challenge, what I expect financial institutions to face is, do I have internally the end-to-end one centralized view of a consumer.

Jim Marous (15:52):

So, we work together, our organizations work together. I did a research report on Alkami's behalf for your digital maturity index that organizations can actually use a tool to rate themselves to find out where are they along that digital maturity curve.

Jim Marous (16:08):

We looked at the more tactical issues such as personalization, the ability to seamlessly open a new account, the ability to do so on the lending side as well. The use of data, and AI, and analytics to actually know your customer. All these elements.

Jim Marous (16:26):

But when you think about it, all those really roll up to an open banking infrastructure that allows this to happen. So, really this is a bigger piece of the overall data maturity model and being able to look and saying, "Are you going to be resilient in the future? Can you pivot if the marketplace pivots?"

Jim Marous (16:49):

With this, it's hard for many organizations to totally understand the ramifications. But from a product perspective your organization also, partners with a lot of organizations, FinTech providers that provide tools, everything from SavvyMoney to a lot of other companies that you integrate those.

Jim Marous (17:08):

How do you work with smaller and mid-sized financial institutions to get them prepared for what is coming down the road and what is really the underbelly of all the elements of digital market maturity that we talk about in your research.

Deep Varma (17:27):

Jim, if you remember during this Co:lab I talked about the transformation arc. It started with the digital twin user experience and now, we are entering into the data maturity curve where the data is going to become so paramount.

Deep Varma (17:45):

And the data is not just the rows and the columns. The data is what are the insights I can drive and then what is the actionable insights I can take?

Deep Varma (17:58):

So, for example, "Hey, Deep, you have been spending this much money on your lending, like on your mortgage, do you know that you can go to this financial institution and you can get the lower rate?" So, insights is one thing. Actionable is the second thing.

Deep Varma (18:19):

The role Alkami plays, number one, is helping financial institutions to understand, do you have the right data strategy? I think having the data strategy is one piece, but do you have the people who understands the data strategy?

Deep Varma (18:37):

Because sometimes what happens is financial institutions goes and hire a consulting firms to define the data strategy, but if you don't have your own data people to drive your strategy, that's a second stumbling block.

Deep Varma (18:51):

And the third area is do you have a partner, or do you have the right data infrastructure in place? For example, are you going to get the data in a batch file? Are you going to get the data in a streaming way? Are you going to get the data in a API way?

Deep Varma (19:10):

So, I think those are the areas where Alkami is getting into how do we take the data and give it to our financial institutions so that they can take the advantage of it and help them.

Deep Varma (19:24):

So, those are the areas Alkami is focused on. Your data strategy, do you have the data infrastructure, do you have the people to understand the data?

Jim Marous (19:35):

It's interesting, you brought up very well in that building partnerships with third party providers that work beside you to actually help you become more resilient, more future ready going forward is asking the questions.

Jim Marous (19:50):

It's interesting because in working with your team in the past and other teams, I realize that yes, you bring solutions to the marketplace, but because of all your relationships in the marketplace with other financial institutions, you're able to ask the right questions to get them along that continuum of data maturity and digital maturity to really make them more prepared for the future.

Jim Marous (20:14):

As you do that, obviously, there's ways that this improves the customer experience and improves the differentiation potential.

Jim Marous (20:25):

How does open banking really do that? How does it improve the customer experience? How does it make it so that if I'm working with a company that is really along the path of digital market maturity with regard to open banking, how does that impact the consumer directly?

Deep Varma (20:46):

Yeah. And this is where it gets interesting. It's customer experience. I think there are times I have heard people getting a little confused between the user experience and the customer experience. So, I want to clarify.

Deep Varma (21:02):

User experience, when you engage with the product and the application and the tool, how easy it is for you to navigate through that. That's a user experience.

Deep Varma (21:14):

Customer experience is my experience working with you as a financial institution. Are you providing me the right services at the right time? So, when I go into the branches, when I enter, someone comes and say, "Hello, welcome, Mr. Verma." That is a customer experience.

Deep Varma (21:35):

When I go to the teller, that teller is just not the transactional relationship, it's an emotional relationship. "Hello, Mr. Verma, you have $20,000 in this account. If you move into the savings account, you are going to get this much interest better."

Deep Varma (21:55):

Open banking is going to help financial institutions to take all the data and give consumers what they want at the right time. And I think that to me is a changing moment because consumers are hungry at this time. They are hungry to say help me, but industry is not helping them.

Deep Varma (22:21):

So, it is what I will say the example which I just gave it to you, how do you bridge the gap between online and offline? Because the customer experience is going to be when I go to a branch and when I go to a digital channel, my experience has to be seamless.

Deep Varma (22:41):

It is like, Jim, watching a Netflix show. It doesn't matter you are at home, you are on a plane, you are in a hotel. Your customer experience with the Netflix is same irrespective of where you are.

Deep Varma (22:55):

So, Jim, that's what I think open banking is going to enable to change how the experiences have been given from the physical experiences to the digital experiences to serve consumers what they want at the right time.

Jim Marous (23:12):

So, what's the risk of an organization not building for an open banking future? The do nothing is always an option. It is an option that many financial institutions take on an array of things that I believe they need to do, which is nice because it keeps both of us in business.

Jim Marous (23:31):

But that being said, what is the risk of an organization not preparing for open banking?

Deep Varma (23:40):

I think we always have a choice as an organization to do something or not to do something. And as I said in the beginning, there are some organizations when I interact with them, they still consider open banking as a burden.

Deep Varma (23:55):

But let me tell this, what I call as an organic debt. That's what's going to happen if you don't do anything. Shift is already happening. Look around the world, the shift is already happening. What's going to happen slowly and gradually is your members, your users, your consumers, they're going to start leaving you.

Deep Varma (24:19):

And what's going to happen when that's going to start, your business is going to die by itself. So, it's not a choice at this moment of time, frankly speaking. I think you need to better align with this because it is how the shift is happening.

Deep Varma (24:37):

So, I call, Jim, in my terminology as an organic death, which is going to happen to the businesses, those who are not getting ready for the open banking. That's the way to look into it.

Jim Marous (24:51):

So, one of the things on the opposite side of the potential of open banking is the whole risk issue or the perceived risk issue of consumer data being secure and privacy being protected.

Jim Marous (25:03):

How do financial institutions ensure that they are not going down a path of risk in expansion and how does Alkami help their institutions keep consumers data secure and privacy protected?

Deep Varma (25:22):

And this is a very big risk, Jim, when you look into from the data point of view. If Deep has 10 different accounts and Deep wants to look into Credit Karma, SavvyMoney and so many other things, now Deep is opening up the risk so that my data is going to all the third parties. The data breaches are common in the industry.

Deep Varma (25:49):

Number one, we just need to ensure that the companies which we are partnering up with have the PCI compliance in place. They have a very strong strict security guidelines.

Deep Varma (26:02):

We need to ensure that their data is guarded when it is networking on the networking layer, when we are communicating, it is always the secure protocol.

Deep Varma (26:14):

So, I will say while the risk is increasing, is picking up the third parties in our ecosystem, selecting the third parties, looking into their PCI compliance, looking into how do they store the data at rest or how do they have the data when it is on the move, what technologies they are using, and continuously doing a regular audits of the systems.

Deep Varma (26:45):

Those are the areas what we need to be doing more work. Otherwise, the probability of the data leaking through the pipes is going to increase. So, that's what we need to do.

Jim Marous (26:59):

It's interesting, it gets back to many organizations are somewhat unprepared for moving forward for what needs to be done in banking.

Jim Marous (27:09):

And this is where the collaboration with third party institutions such as Alkami is so important because again, they can build from the success stories that you've had. They can build from the challenges you've seen organizations have.

Jim Marous (27:22):

Even though every organization says we're different than everybody else, the reality is there's so many similarities that 80% of what they do, others have done it before them.

Jim Marous (27:33):

And the ability for your team to come in, ask the questions that you know needs to be asked to find out is there risk out there, provides a tremendous advantage. And actually, an open book for insight within an organization to say at least I know I'm going down the path that others have gone down and I have less risk involved there.

Jim Marous (27:54):

So, speaking of success stories, can you share some success stories or case studies of financial institutions that have actually successfully implemented some open banking strategies?

Deep Varma (28:06):

Yeah. So, we have many financial institutions who have partnered up with us to use, for example, Plaid to connect with other financial institutions. And we had built our APIs based on the industry specifications.

Deep Varma (28:25):

When they go through the Plaid, they can connect other financial institutions to Alkami, but they can also connect Alkami’s platform to the third parties also.

Deep Varma (28:39):

So, Plaid is one of the success stories partnering with them how we enable the financial institutions to use this open banking rails to get the data go back and forth to enable the businesses.

Deep Varma (28:56):

And I think this is paying off and we look into what we call as an account aggregation. Account aggregation is one of the areas, I have my accounts in three different places, I get one view and then that one view can tell me how I'm spending my money, when do I need more money to support this.

Deep Varma (29:17):

So, I will say that using this Plaid relationship is definitely played off for many financial institutions in our network, those who are using this as one of the successes for the open banking.

Jim Marous (29:32):

Yeah. And it's important because that opens the door to the other partners that you've vetted and you provide tools for financial institutions to use. I get very frustrated because I work with two very, very large top 10 financial institutions.

Jim Marous (29:48):

And because one of them does not really embrace Plaid for their own reasons, it makes it so that I can't get the flow of funds, the insight, the view of my overall relationship in an easy way. I have to cobble this together myself.

Jim Marous (30:06):

And I'm still writing checks on twice a month basis to deposit from my business account to my personal account because there's no seamless and easy way for these organizations to talk to each other still today.

Jim Marous (30:18):

What advice do you give finance institutions that are just starting this open banking journey? Where should they start besides giving your team a call, but where else should they start to really get going on this journey?

Deep Varma (30:34):

Yeah. I think what they start, I think the best and the most important thing is to reach out to your members and the consumers and you'll see the pain point. Jim, you just gave your example, by you not having this seamless integrations, the work which adds to you.

Deep Varma (30:53):

And the good news is you are not alone. People like you and me are on the same boat because I do that.

Deep Varma (31:02):

I think what they need to do is they really need to look into internally and say, “Do I have someone in my organization who is strategically thinking about the open banking?” That's the number one.

Deep Varma (31:14):

If you are going to have open banking distributed to the 10 people in your organization, it means no one is focused on the open banking. So, have someone who is looking into open banking, marry the open banking with your data strategy, don't keep them independent because they are related. So, open banking with the data strategy.

Deep Varma (31:40):

Second piece is look into your risk and the compliance area. Are you ready? Do you have the right controls in place with the risk and the compliance area? If you have a InfoSec organization, is your InfoSec organization is also ready for the data exchanges, how you are going to respond in the case of the data breaches?

Deep Varma (32:05):

So, there are multiple areas, but what I will say the first thing they can do is have someone internally whose full-time job is to look into open banking and the data which is going to impact them in years to come.

Jim Marous (32:22):

It's interesting, I sometimes construct these questions ahead of time and then when I read them or I look at them, in my mind I'm saying that's not a good question. And one I was going to ask you was how do you see the open banking landscape evolving in the next 5 to 10 years?

Jim Marous (32:38):

And immediately, I go, “Where in the world I get 5 to 10 years?” Because we see so much change happening in the first 1 to 3 years that that gives us a good guidepost to know what's going to happen in 5 to 10 years is really a tough one.

Jim Marous (32:51):

But with that in mind, if you look at an extraordinarily pure, great open banking environment with multiple financial institutions, but your own in particular, what will banking look like in the next one to three years?

Jim Marous (33:08):

Or in a really good environment where open banking is key and foundational to the organization, how would that feel from a consumer's perspective compared to the way it feels today?

Deep Varma (33:20):

First and foremost, we all know, Jim, this device is not going anywhere. Wherever I'm going to go, some manifestation of a mobile device is always going to be with me.

Deep Varma (33:30):

So, the way I look into the open banking, the consumer, my data is in my phone, it is in my vault. If I go to a different financial institution, I can tap my phone and I can exchange the data with them.

Deep Varma (33:48):

That's the way I look into it, that I'm in the control, I don't need to go and set up the system. I carry this device, I'm sitting with my financial advisor, "Hey, Deep, I want your statements." I just use this device, my data get transferred into a different system in a seamless way. That's one.

Deep Varma (34:09):

Number two, I look into, when I log into the mobile app, I'm not starting my relationship just looking into what is my balance. I call this as a transactional relationship.

Deep Varma (34:21):

I want to see looking more into an emotional relationship. "Hey, Deep, you can now, go and lend money from this financial institution, which will reduce your rate by 2%." So, when I log into the app, don't just show me the balance, show me how you are helping me. That's the second area which I'm going to see the shift happening.

Deep Varma (34:47):

And the third area which I see with the open banking shift happening is more and more service providers and more and more insights coming into the system. When I'm at the Starbucks, I can directly pay the payments from my financial institutions by tapping.

Deep Varma (35:08):

This whole payment system, I see the changes happening in the payment industry with the open banking, how the money gets moved. So, I see these three areas which is definitely going to keep evolving.

Deep Varma (35:22):

But at the same time, we should not forget about the risk and the security from the consumer point of view. They don't think about it on a day-to-day basis, but it is our job to make sure that while we provide the best experiences, we should not compromise on the risks and the security associated with open banking.

Jim Marous (35:44):

Boy, that brings it all together really well because I think when we talk about customer experience, we talk about personalization, we talk about ease and simplicity, we talk about empathy. But all that goes out the window if we don't take care of the data security and the privacy issues.

Jim Marous (36:00):

And I get dazzled by the shining stars out there, what can happen. But we have to remember that it all blows up, for lack of a better term, if we don't keep our risk and privacy issues in alignment.

Jim Marous (36:16):

And it's exciting, Deep. I always enjoy talking to you and talking often about the future. But everything as you said is driven by building for an open banking future.

Jim Marous (36:30):

We look at the amount that's going to happen with generative AI and the more data we take in, the better we're going to be able to implement against this model, this platform.

Jim Marous (36:40):

When you look at the new products that are coming into the foray and while organizations are improving their ability to do the tactical things with your phone.

Jim Marous (36:49):

The reality is I had a gentleman at the financial brand forum that I interviewed that said it's about making it all DYI. The consumer's got to be able to very easily do it themselves. And it may be without any device at all. It may be out of the air.

Jim Marous (37:08):

And the future of where banking is going, we're all playing catch up. But it's important for us to catch up in the open banking area because whatever takes place in the future, whatever compliance or regulations coming on into the foray, this foundation is going to be key.

Jim Marous (37:26):

And I think the one thing that we touched upon, but not probably deep enough, is the fact that there's no size organization that can't do this. I think that's what's really exciting is this is not just for the big boys.

Jim Marous (37:39):

I mean, in fact, I would hazard guess and we have a podcast with you on FIsionaries Podcast that we talk to people regularly to say some of the smallest organizations are doing the most exciting things in the open banking area.

Jim Marous (37:53):

So, Deep, it's always great to talk to you. I really appreciate your time and your sharing your insights into what's going on with open banking and also, the commitment Alkami's making to building an open banking ecosystem that's going to be forward looking for your partner organizations. So, thank you.

Deep Varma (38:13):

Thank you, Jim. And I always enjoy talking with you. You inspire me a lot too because you are doing such a big thing for this industry, helping us navigate in the next era. So, I appreciate you Jim, too.

Jim Marous (38:26):

I appreciate that. And if anybody isn't seen Deep dance, when he's about to get on stage and do a presentation, he will dance on stage. The guy does not lack enthusiasm and he keeps that dancing going into the wee hours of the night. Just saying, he does better than I do on that one.

Jim Marous (38:45):

So, we won't share any of that in our podcast, but I will say that your enthusiasm inspires me as well. Thank you.

Deep Varma (38:51):

Thank you, Jim.

[Music Playing]

Jim Marous (38:53):

Thanks for listening to Banking Transformed, the top podcast in retail banking and the winner three international awards for podcast excellence. We appreciate the support you've been providing. If you enjoy what we're doing, please take some time to show some love in the form of a review.

Jim Marous (39:10):

On that note, thanks to Carla from California for the recent review. She wrote, "Excellent and insightful interview format, covering current topics in banking and FinTech." Subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss the next great opportunity that can lead to greater growth and loyalty.

Jim Marous (39:29):

This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts. A special thank you to our senior producer, Leah Haslage; audio engineer, Chris Fafalios; and video producer, Will Pritts.